[Firedup6975]

First or last to be produced, it’s still nothing really special, unless it was #1 of 1, then you’re talking big bucks.

[242177P]

First OHC6 Bird would also have 001, almost seems like this fact has been overlooked by many (not all, it was mentioned here before)

[Aaron65]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

Are you referring to number 15,000 rolling off the assembly line or number 1?

Ford Mustang #2 is available. It is a straight 6 coupe in very rough condition. Price - $1,000,000.00

Mustang #2 (VIN 100002) is a restored car that just sold at Barrett-Jackson for $192,500.

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...N-00002-223632

[johnta1]

Long thread from few years ago on these Birds

Firebird #1 & #2

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by Aaron65

Mustang #2 (VIN 100002) is a restored car that just sold at Barrett-Jackson for $192,500.

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...N-00002-223632

Unless it was restored in the last couple of years, I do not think that is it. The one I saw appeared to have its original "white" paint and was very rough. The car was on consignment at The AutoBarn in Concord, NC and the "owners" of the car had an asking price of $1,000,000.00. I was just at The AutoBarn a couple of weeks ago and spoke to the owner specifically about the car. Although the car was no longer there the owner of The AutoBarn told me that the guy still owns the car and is still holding out for his cool million.

You can call The AutoBarn and talk to the owner himself or Tom Marshall, they are really nice guys - https://www.autobarnclassiccars.com/

[TAKerry]

You guys crack me up! These are the first 2 firebirds made, originally put into circulation for promotion. Just because they are #1 and #2 DOES make them extremely valuable. I agree they may not be the 'most significant firebird ever made' but they are still pretty special. Unfortunately Pontiac does not garner the same attention, or maybe Pontiac owners are just cheap (and it seems the latter is true judging by the previous comments), but if these were something Mopar, say Challenger (or charger or whatever) #1 and #2, a million dollars would be the starting point!

[Firedup6975]

#1 69 TA convertible and #1 69 TA coupe should be worth those kinds of numbers, I just don’t see it on these two.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by Firedup6975

#1 69 TA convertible and #1 69 TA coupe should be worth those kinds of numbers, I just don’t see it on these two.

You're biased!

[Firedup6975]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

You're biased!

Huh? Me??

[TAKerry]

Originally Posted by Firedup6975

#1 69 TA convertible and #1 69 TA coupe should be worth those kinds of numbers, I just don’t see it on these two.

I agree completely. I think any 69 trans am should be a million dollar car. Again, look at the mopars, there will be a 1 of 5 made some kinda car that will sell for stupid money. They seem to get more love

[Firedup6975]

Originally Posted by TAKerry

I agree completely. I think any 69 trans am should be a million dollar car. Again, look at the mopars, there will be a 1 of 5 made some kinda car that will sell for stupid money. They seem to get more love

Sad but true, I’ve been doing the car show circuits since the early 90’s. ( I’m not bragging....) “ but it took 13 years to restore my 69. It’s pretty much perfect, but when I attend some of these shows, the Mopar and Chevy’s always, are more proffered over the Few Pontiacs that attend. Why?? I still have not figured it out after all these years.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by Firedup6975

Sad but true, I’ve been doing the car show circuits since the early 90’s. ( I’m not bragging....) “ but it took 13 years to restore my 69. It’s pretty much perfect, but when I attend some of these shows, the Mopar and Chevy’s always, are more proffered over the Few Pontiacs that attend. Why?? I still have not figured it out after all these years.

I took my '62 GP to a show once and some guy bumped into it, never seeing it , while walking over to look at a '69 Camaro. Not a Z or RS, just your average run of the mill '69 Camaro.

[Firedup6975]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

I took my '62 GP to a show once and some guy bumped into it, never seeing it , while walking over to look at a '69 Camaro. Not a Z or RS, just your average run of the mill '69 Camaro.

It happens, unless it’s a truly judged show with actual judges, Pontiacs rarely take an award. If it’s Judges you stand a chance. Owners choice voting generally they stay to their own brands, and don’t even give another brand a look. That’s fine with me I just enjoy talking to people and if all my car gets are people taking pics, that makes my day. An award is just an extra.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by Firedup6975

It happens, unless it’s a truly judged show with actual judges, Pontiacs rarely take an award. If it’s Judges you stand a chance. Owners choice voting generally they stay to their own brands, and don’t even give another brand a look. That’s fine with me I just enjoy talking to people and if all my car gets are people taking pics, that makes my day. An award is just an extra.

And that is why I couldn't give a damn about shows anymore. Besides, those are for the "look at me" people. Every car I own or have owned in the past 20+ years has been for me and my enjoyment, not for anyone else.

[Firedup6975]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

And that is why I couldn't give a damn about shows anymore. Besides, those are for the "look at me" people. Every car I own or have owned in the past 20+ years has been for me and my enjoyment, not for anyone else.

For me it’s about showing off what a factory stock Pontiac looks like. The few that do show up at a car event are usually heavily modified with Edelbrock, chrome summit racing parts Moroso stuff, I enjoy chatting with others, I enjoy young kids having an interest in something you’ll never see produced again. I do not consider myself a trophy hunter, I attend many events where there are no awards. I actually don’t win the award, the car does, to the tune of 207 since 1997. I’ve missed 3 this season so far due to having pneumonia, so that number was up until last years number. Shows and cruises give me great pleasure, sharing my knowledge and the history of my car is my goal. And the 69 being a one year body style, intrigues people. The name alone on my front plate, is a historical fact about this car. BIGDADDY is what GM called the 69 bird as it is wider than the 67 and 68s. Did you know that?. I have the article to prove it. I just shared a Pontiac fact with you all.

[John V.]

P.T. Barnum springs to my mind. Ford set up a pilot line to build Mustangs in advance of their announcement at the NY World's Fair during its 1964 run. Many of the early VINs, a dozen Mustang convertibles, became a last minute addition to the Disney Magic Skyway exhibit. These were replaced by new builds for the 1965 run. Dozens of other Ford, Lincoln, & Mercury cars were used for this exhibit.

The Mustang continues in production and has a huge following spanning decades. First year Firebird sales volume was paltry in comparison, hasn't been produced in nearly a generation, and has nowhere near the following of the Mustang. The Firebird is a significant car in the Pontiac world but the Mustang is a milestone car in the automotive world. Big difference. The 1st gen Firebird was not groundbreaking, it and the Camaro was a belated answer to the Mustang. Stylistically, the 2nd gen F body was significantly more groundbreaking.

Supply and demand being what it is, the Mustang faithful's interest and the general automotive world's interest in early VIN Mustangs will always exceed interest in these Firebirds, IMO.

The story of the first VIN'd Mustang is well known. Ford traded the millionth Mustang for it in 1966 and this convertible resides in the Henry Ford museum, AFAIK, to this day. VIN No. 2 was mentioned in the previous post, known as the first hardtop.

Story goes that even Ford does not know the order in which these "first" Mustangs were completed. And there were a LOT of them, nearly 200 built on the line at their Dearborn Plant to supply cars to the World's Fair and other promotional or engineering purposes. But before these "pre-production" Mustangs with Dearborn VINs were built, Ford had already been building pilot Mustangs at their Allen Park Pilot Plant. Ford and Mustang fans accept the Dearborn VIN'd Mustang at the Henry Ford Museum as the first but it is also known that perhaps a dozen Mustangs were VIN'd at Allen Park. Most if not sll of the pilot cars were likely planned to be scrapped.

So was Mustang No. 1 really the first Mustang? Doesn't matter what you think. If Ford ever decided to sell the Museum Mustang, I'm sure the final sales price would be well into the 6 figures and perhaps beyond because moneyed demand would be high.

A similar early production story is likely true of these Firebirds. These apparently the first two VIN'd at Lordstown. Were they really the first assembled? Does it matter? How significant are they really? Were they just a face lifted '67 Camaro? Were they part of a lackluster GM response to the Mustang that disappointed the buying public by the time they appeared more than 2 years after the Mustang debuted, almost 3 years in the case of the Firebird? The 1st gen Camaro/Firebird design was dated before it ever hit the showroom. More than a million Mustangs were already on the road. The F body was a better car, from a design, build, and performance perspective, Mustangs were cheaply and poorly done in my view. But the buying public hardly saw the F body as mind blowing.

The 1st Mustang introduced an exciting new genre of car. The F body whimpered "me too".

Pontiac fans love them today, especially the hi-po versions, convertibles, highly optioned examples, etc. No. 1 & No. 2 are mildly interesting. Would be more interesting if there was any documentation regarding their "Show" duty, pictures of them on display, etc. As it is, they seem not much more valuable than the first Pontiac Astre, another rebadged Pontiac of an uninspired Chevy that itself was just a response to a genre that was created by others. Hardly an automotive milestone.

If the Pontiac Museum had a benefactor with deep pockets like FoMoCo did on behalf of the Henry Ford Museum, they would make a nice display there. But I don't see them being worth $200k. I suspect many of the bids aren't for real. And since it hasn't met reserve, I'm pretty certain no money is changing hands at this time.

It has always fascinated me how car hobbyists work so hard to find the most minute difference among a group of mass produced same models to establish a pecking order of value. "Matching Nos." perhaps the most obvious detail that hobbyists will use. I'm not familiar enough to know if there were running changes for the 'bird during '67. But if there were, is the first produced AFTER the running change more valuable than any produced prior? Or do you think, like I do, that this is just a silly litmus test that should have no impact on valuation of a mass produced car?

When comparing same models with VINs U100001 and U115000, I would want to look at the quality of the respective restoration, the level of equipment/options, documented history, historic photos, condition of the car, colors, and other tangible things. There may be plenty of hobbyists that will place a value on the VIN, not me. I would only be interested in a '67 convertible but have no interest in auto trans cars and wouldn't care to own a '67 coupe. A 4 spd convert in the right color would be worth more than either of these cars to me.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion so somebody is likely to value these cars much higher than I would. But there will never be enough interest in these Firebirds to push the value to 1st Mustang levels. JMO.

[BertMac]

The second Richard Rawlings touched them the price went way down in my opinion

[GT182]

Then the first ever Formula Firebird should be just as valuable. Less made than the Trans Ams.

As for Pontiacs not winning trophies by popular vote I beg to differ with you MaryAnn. I've gotten quite a few from show attendees voting. None from an actual show judge. I don't really care either way as to me all trophies are nothing but dust collectors. LOL But I have seen judges at shows that know nothing about Pontiacs at all, and as such pass off a trophy to some other car instead of the ones that deserve them. I went after a judge up in PA over an unmolested all original 85 Grand Prix that came out of the GM St. Therese, PQ plant. Everything on the car was original from the assembly line...l even the tires. the car had only a little over 2000 miles on it and was perfect. The judge said it was repainted, hoses and belts changed, and even glass was changed. Not so and I spoke up to the people running the show. The man did get his 1st place trophy. He's even been at the SVGTO Club's shows and gotten trophies by popular vote.

What upsets me is someone that doesn't really have a show car worthy of a trophy getting all p!ssed off because they didn't get one. And I've seen some really poor sports throwing tantrums.

[Chief of the 60's]

Popular vote shows are never about what you have but who and how many you know.

[Firedup6975]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

Popular vote shows are never about what you have but who and how many you know.

Popular vote, I hardly even touch my car, because the people voting, just look at the front of the car as they are walking by it, seldom do they even do a walk around or even look inside, if they like it you get a vote if not they just keep walking. I do not play the friend game. I vote for what I feel deserves it, and that means a full look over. No hoods or trunks up NO vote. I have a lot of friends at these shows, but I do not play that click game!

Was at a judged by the club sponsoring the show last year at a firehouse. Points judged. There was a guy with an orange 69 bird. Motor all rusty, wires hanging out of the dash, stuffing falling out of the seats, headliner hanging down over the back seat. He won a top 25. I won nothing. After the fact, I was told he was a firehouse member. Oh well hope he enjoyed that award. Lol. It happens, I don’t let not winning get me down, I learn from each events process, and just don’t go back.