[stephenjc]

I've just joined this website and was wondering about a value on a 1970 Judge Ram Air IV 4-speed. The car has been sitting in a freinds yard since 1982 he bought it in the late 70's. He always said he had this GTO that was a ram air 4 when I was a teenager. I finally went out to look at the car a fews years back, I'm 45 now. When I got there the car was sitting in line up of pontiacs that had been sitting for a while also. The car looked like it was painted in the mid 70's it is now an very faded cooper color with a black vinyl top that is almost completely shot. He said he bought it that way. The car's trim tag has 06 B for the paint code, 258 for interior trim,, 11C build date and the car was assembled in Arlington Texas. I wrote down the VIN and sent in to PHS the car is definitely a ram air iv 4 speed orbit orange black vinyl top car it was sold new in Janesville Wisconsin. The block is the vin number matching block, he has different heads and intake on the engine right now but has the original heads and intake in one of his sheds which I looked at and verified the dates and numbers. The transmission and rear axle have not been verified as to whether they are original, but my friend says he never had them out of the car or opened up, so odds are they are probably original. We were wondering how rare this car is and what would it be worth restored to #1 condition. Thanks, SJ

[PMD1969]

Pictures and location are very important. So sad that it was left to sit and rot.

[Cerberus]

I'll give him 10 k for it.

[OVERULD]

Welcome to the board! Nice first post! Nothing like a long-lost numbers matching RAIV OO car to get some attention. Definitely worth saving, worth more if it was a Judge. As others have said, pictures will help with the value assesment. Word of wisdom, keep the location and details to yourself if you have hopes of buying the car. Lots of great info and knowledge here - including skill on the "art of deal making".

BJ

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

We don't have exact breakdowns on every detail available to us.

But around 600+ cars were Orbit Orange - mostly Judges.

325 Judges were RamAir IV with 4spd

About 3800 total 70 Judges built in various colors engines trans etc ...

If done to true #1 no corner cut resto - probably around 100k resale .
He'll need about 60-80k to get it to that level - professionally .

Depending how the actual condition and completeness turns out to be - it could be worth anywhere from 15-35k as it sits .

Post a copy of the PHS if you can.
Cover the last 3-4 digits of VIN if that is a sensitive issue. no probo


Welcome to the PY Forum , Stephen
Neat story, thanks for sharing .

[stephenjc]

This car is a Judge, I've already offered him $30K in $100 dollar bills he wouldn't even flinch. I would like some expert opinions on what the car is worth restored to a number one condition car. I have all the PHS documents from the VIN number I'll try to post the cowl tag photos and pics of the car I have. I'm trying to save this car, it is not for sale and probably will never be for sale except for when buddy is standing at the pearly gates. Even then it will be impossible to get it away from the family. I'm trying to show him some sort of professional opinions on what the car is worth so he will spend the money on restoring the car. MY BIG QUESTION IS DOES ANYONE OWN OR HAVE ANY PROOF OF AN ORBIT ORANGE BLACK VINYL TOP RAM AIR IV 4 SPEED JUDGE THAT IS A TRUE OO BLACK VINYL TOP JUDGE RAM AIR IV, MOST PEOPLE SAY THEY NEVER WERE MADE THAT WAY BY THE GENERAL. PLEASE SOMEONE SHOW ME SOME PROOF. AND I WILL SAY AGAIN THE CAR IS NOT FOR SALE!!!!!

THANKSSJ

[muscle_collector]

i don't know what the big deal about the vinyl top is, you could get a vinyl top on any Pontiac. however it is a really cool car. there is a guy who has been offering me a totally restored 70 orbit orange 4 speed that is done correct (wouldn't ever say 100% according to the Pontiac police judges but it is over restored any way). he has offered it to me for 75k and I know he has a lot more than that in it.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Wonder what part of the equation They can't comprehend ??

No prob getting an IV Judge with 4spd
No prob getting Orbit Orange after Oct or Nov of 1969
No prob getting a Vinyl Top - or - Convertible roof - on an OO Judge , in available colors.
Seems like a factory bulletin did state you could not get two-tone/painted roof with OO. That would be the only limiting factor with OO.
Most would probably rather not have the vinyl top , plus pay the extra for it .

sounds like They , are just lacking knowledge , maybe ?

Or is someone just looking for a leg to stand on to call it 1-of-1 because it has vinyl top with OO ?
i know of at least 4-5 OO RamIV Judges , 1 is a convertible .
None of the OO RamIV i know of have a vinyl top on them .

Have documents on other Judges - not OO - with vinyl tops and painted two-tone roofs. if that helps any

[GTOnly70]

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

i don't know what the big deal about the vinyl top is, you could get a vinyl top on any Pontiac. however it is a really cool car. there is a guy who has been offering me a totally restored 70 orbit orange 4 speed that is done correct (wouldn't ever say 100% according to the Pontiac police judges but it is over restored any way). he has offered it to me for 75k and I know he has a lot more than that in it.

Is that RAIII or RAIV?

[70ra455]

IMO the vinyl top detracts from the price considerably and I don't believe the car would get 100K ... but that's only one opinion ...

[stephenjc]

I'm just trying to see if anyone has ever seen a trim tag or PHS documented OO black vinyl top judge. I looked for my PHS packet on this car can't find it (wife's gone right now she knows where everything is at). When I find it I'll scan it with the last part of the vin covered.

Thank you for your comments, SJ

[muscle_collector]

Originally Posted by GTOnly70

Is that RAIII or RAIV?

that would be a ra4

[weranc55]

Originally Posted by 70ra455

IMO the vinyl top detracts from the price considerably and I don't believe the car would get 100K ... but that's only one opinion ...

Agree on the top.

[Judge273]

Being a 70 4 speed RA IV OO Judge in a concourse restoration and numbers matching will bring 100K. IMHO

Vinyl top won't add value but won't take away "that it is made that way from factory", and it is something very rare and special.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

i'd deduct about 5k from value if it gets restored with the vinyl top back on it.

[richard sargent]

Desirability and rareness are two separate ideas. One does not always follow the other.

Ram Air IV OO Judge was about speed and performance with spoilers, loud paint, wild stripes, kinda of opposite a vinyl top,
it didn't match the theme of the car.

The car stands alone for being what it is without the top and doesn't make it worth more with the top.

I would restore the car with vinyl top because it is unique, but don't expect the car to be worth more because of it.

[Diego]

I get the feeling some people are trying to find some logic why a car with a vinyl top should be worth less.

The top has nothing to do with a performance image (or lack thereof). It's merely a trim piece which at one point mimicked a raised convertible top. It seems some think a Judge with a vinyl top should be worth less, but if you're looking for an OO RAIV Judge, are you going to skip over this one because it has the top? To me, it's not so much a demerit as much as personal preference.

[richard sargent]

Originally Posted by Diego

I get the feeling some people are trying to find some logic why a car with a vinyl top should be worth less.

The top has nothing to do with a performance image (or lack thereof). It's merely a trim piece which at one point mimicked a raised convertible top. It seems some think a Judge with a vinyl top should be worth less, but if you're looking for an OO RAIV Judge, are you going to skip over this one because it has the top? To me, it's not so much a demerit as much as personal preference.

Never said it was worth less, just said it was not a option that would make the car worth more.

Car is so rare if you want a 00 IV Judge 4 speed I don't think it's going to stop you from buying, but if you tell people it's another 25k because of the roof it's not going to work,

I don't think the only one in the world doesn't hold weight when its comes to vinyl top.

Comments that it was worth less was maybe 5% on a 100k. Not out of line, that kind of number (5%) could go also go on the plus side also.

[The Boss]

I wouldn't kick it out of my garage for leaking oil!

[1oldgoat]

Vinyl tops are cool.