[blueghoast]

Motor made a little less power this time, Blowing oil passed rear seal
for some reason, worst than before 3-YR's ago. but I was testing fuel
different's. Race fuel-pump gas and E-85.
RPM down do to smoke in dyno cell and maybe weaker valve springs.
Race fuel= 600 HP. Get this, Pump fuel= 613 HP. and finaly E-85=580 HP
I new it would make more on pump fuel but wasn't exspecting 13 more HP
And couldn't beleive the loss on E-85.
613.3@5900 HP and597.7@4700 lbs. Dragen Car was interested in results
on what the defferent fuels made. here ya go.

GT

[GOAT8U2]

You monitoring AFR?
What compression?
What timing on pump and E85?

E85 needs a little richer too, so if you were
13.2 gas
You'd want to see 13.0 or 12.8 E85

Not surprised on race gas, 110 +?
If you don't have the cylinder pressure to use it then you're gonna see what you saw, a Honda running 110 octane.

We're seeing 2-3% more power on E85, I'll post my data soon once my 12-1 trigger kit is installed and we chasis dyno again.

[Dragncar]

Can you refresh us on the static CR, cam ect ?
13 HP is quite a difference.
How I have understood it, if you do not have enough compression to ping on pump gas you will always make more power than race gas.
Actually, there is less energy in 87 octane than 116 octane. Its just that with 116 with 15-1 the extra cylinder pressure more than compensates.
A 8-1 engine will run like garbage on race gas.

What do you think the smoke is coming from ? Sorry to hear about the rear main, they can be a major pain the the A##.

[PAUL K]

Good job!

E-85 has its place but it's a small place...JMHO

RMS is a bummer!

[grandville455]

Originally Posted by blueghoast

Motor made a little less power this time, Blowing oil passed rear seal
for some reason, worst than before 3-YR's ago. but I was testing fuel
different's. Race fuel-pump gas and E-85.
RPM down do to smoke in dyno cell and maybe weaker valve springs.
Race fuel= 600 HP. Get this, Pump fuel= 613 HP. and finaly E-85=580 HP
I new it would make more on pump fuel but wasn't exspecting 13 more HP
And couldn't beleive the loss on E-85.
613.3@5900 HP and597.7@4700 lbs. Dragen Car was interested in results
on what the defferent fuels made. here ya go.

GT

What did u use for a carb on E85? With a E85 scale you want to be around .78-.80, Gas scale would be high 11's, some cars like it closer to .84 tho also. Did it make more torque on E? With E85 it likes comp to take advantage of using it!

[Stan Weiss]

Is it possible to post the dyno sheets?

Stan

[steve25]

Why are you surprised that the motor made more hp on pump then on race fuel, it's telling you flat out that if you feed me more Octane then I need to not detonate then the slower burn rate in my cylinders will make you less overall power.

What are you using for a rear main seal this time around?

[blueghoast]

The rear seal is a BOP 2-peice I think it's getting under the seal and spraying
all over from the back of the engine, every thing else is sealed. I think I'm
going to go back to a aftermarket rope seal (hurd good things) the cam is
@50 274-278 with around 634ish lift on a 106 LSA Comp is 11:50:1.
Timing on RG and PG is 37* on E-85 went as high as 46* didn't seam to
make a differance. The gas carb was a 1050 Dom the E-85 carb was a 1050
4150 style, had to flip the super sucker up-side down to clear throttle blades.
I'll try an get a sheet up as soon as I can. As soon as the motor hit 6000rpm
power drop like a rock, It shows on the graph. I didn't get the other dyno
sheets forgot to ask for them. We made 7-pulls to get what I got for results.
Hope this answers any Questions, oh the E-85 fuel was 90-plus on the scale.

GT

[blueghoast]

Originally Posted by steve25

Why are you surprised that the motor made more hp on pump then on race fuel, it's telling you flat out that if you feed me more Octane then I need to not detonate then the slower burn rate in my cylinders will make you less overall power.

What are you using for a rear main seal this time around?

I new it would make more just didn't exspect 13 more thats quite a bit
Don't you think?

GT

[steve25]

Did you change the timing setting along with the fuel?

[blueghoast]

Originally Posted by steve25

Did you change the timing setting along with the fuel?

Yes

GT

[GOAT8U2]

Wait, you ran up timing to 37 degrees WOT on pump and 46 degrees on E85?

My car didn't make any more power at 35 degrees vs 32 let alone 37 or a head gasket blowing 46 degrees.

Am I missing something here, this sounds like you're not only making less power due to too much timing but that you're probably looking at a blown gasket and seeing the results of it in your power on E85.

Have you done a compression test after the pulls?

[steve25]

Are you using a aftermarket crank?

Are you using a aftermarket 1 piece or 2 piece seal?

The one piece is the way to go especially if the line bore has been touched up.

Don’t forget that there’s a tall oil slinger lip ground into the crank so the seal does not see direct oil pressure like a lot of folks think it does.

With the one perimeter gap of a one piece seal there’s a 50% less chance of a leak.

[blueghoast]

Originally Posted by GOAT8U2

Wait, you ran up timing to 37 degrees WOT on pump and 46 degrees on E85?

My car didn't make any more power at 35 degrees vs 32 let alone 37 or a head gasket blowing 46 degrees.

Am I missing something here, this sounds like you're not only making less power due to too much timing but that you're probably looking at a blown gasket and seeing the results of it in your power on E85.

Have you done a compression test after the pulls?

The motor made peek HP @37* on P-Fuel and R-Fuel as it did over 3 years
ago. As far as the E-85 we tried the timing @37* degrees to start at and
then went steadily up from there and it made no differants what so ever.
The crank is a factory N crank and the main bearings still look brand new.
I mean you could put the main bearings back in the box and sell them for new, Never had a line hone either, the rear seal is a 2-piece BOP from Butler.
@6000 rpm it would blow smoke like you wouldn't believe, so I just orderd
a grahphight seal from DCI.
i'm tired of playing with the two-piece and one-piece seals, I've sean results
from DCI's seal and I like that. Oh and the plugs showed timing was dead on.

GT

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by blueghoast

The motor made peek HP @37* on P-Fuel and R-Fuel as it did over 3 years
ago. As far as the E-85 we tried the timing @37* degrees to start at and
then went steadily up from there and it made no differants what so ever.
The crank is a factory N crank and the main bearings still look brand new.
I mean you could put the main bearings back in the box and sell them for new, Never had a line hone either, the rear seal is a 2-piece BOP from Butler.
@6000 rpm it would blow smoke like you wouldn't believe, so I just orderd
a grahphight seal from DCI.
i'm tired of playing with the two-piece and one-piece seals, I've sean results
from DCI's seal and I like that. Oh and the plugs showed timing was dead on.

GT

Be careful with the graphite seal. They have a tendency to shred and clog the oil pump screen.

[Dragncar]

You have had trouble with a one piece also ? I used one and its leak free. But it took me 2 attempts to get it right. Lots of sanding, trial fitting, torquing ect, real pain. Took me most of a Sunday afternoon to get it right.
But it was worth it IMO. After I messed up the first one Wade spent some time with me on the phone explaining it. Wade is great and a huge asset to us.
A fella in the Street Section balled up a couple of those graphite deals. Kind of shredded it. You could blow a engine if it shreds at the wrong time. I have one and its going to stay in the bottom drawer of my toolbox.

[johnta1]

As far as the E-85 we tried the timing @37* degrees to start at and
then went steadily up from there and it made no differants what so ever.

How much did you richen up the fuel mixture?

[blueghoast]

Originally Posted by johnta1

How much did you richen up the fuel mixture?

AFR looked good but I didn't think to get all the sheets of the before run's
Carb came off my buddy's big block chevy roller allum heads 12:1 comp
Didn't have to do a jet change at all.

GT

[johnta1]

With E85 you would have to or it was very very lean.

[GOAT8U2]

So..

Carb jetting on pump gas was the same on E85?
If so, no way AFR was good, there's at least a 20% energy density difference between the 2 fuels, most find an additional 25% fuel volume needed to see the benefits.
I run E50 to E85 in 3 of my vehicles and the fueling needs are big and really worth it in the end, not a 35hp loss like you're seeing. Something isn't adding up, volume makes the most sense and that carb needing tweaks was the last detail to see why you lost power on E.