[Old Blue 66]

Currently its in the up position.

It wont go down. When you hit the button to go down it makes all the noise from the pump but the top doesn't budge. When I slide it to up, there is no noise and I believe there should be even though there's nothing for it to do.

Suggestions? Ive had convertibles before but never had any issues with them so I dont know a heck of a lot about their operation.

Hers a shot of the pump. It looks like it has leaked fluid before but Im not sure that what the issue is here because it was working fine today.

[arbys]

Have you done any work on the pump, like changing the fluid? Also are you getting power to both terminals at the connection at the motor?

[Jeff Hamlin]

This older post may offer some insight as well...
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...TIBLE+TOP+PUMP

[Old Blue 66]

I took a closer look at the shelf where the pump is mounted. It has leaked fluid in the past. It appears by looking at the lines that I have air in the lines. Or is it low fluid? Or both?


Is the black rubber piece where it takes fluid? Im assuming its hydrolic fluid? How can I test that its not brake fluid.

[geeteeohguy]

The motor should make noise in both directions. Check for power at both terminals with switch activated. Looks to be ATF....brake fluid is clear. Should be ATF. Rubber plug is fill plug, fill to bottom of hole. Weird looking fill plug....never seen one that long. These systems self-bleed pretty well, and will work fine with some air visible. Suspect faulty switch or issue with the motor. Step one: check for power at both terminals. Step two: make sure fluid is full. Go from there.

[fyrffytr1]

Like geeteeohguy said, check the electrical connections. My top quit working so I unplugged the connection in the trunk and had my wife work the switch both ways. I had power on both legs and when I plugged the connector back in the top started working. The connection may only need a cleaning.
I am going to install relays under the dash to take the load off the switch as recommended by several folks here.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

The motor should make noise in both directions. Check for power at both terminals with switch activated. Looks to be ATF....brake fluid is clear. Should be ATF. Rubber plug is fill plug, fill to bottom of hole. Weird looking fill plug....never seen one that long. These systems self-bleed pretty well, and will work fine with some air visible. Suspect faulty switch or issue with the motor. Step one: check for power at both terminals. Step two: make sure fluid is full. Go from there.

We'll do thanks. Dumb question here but how do you fill it? Does the ribber piece come out? And can you over fill it?

[geeteeohguy]

Rubber plug pulls out and presses back in, like a cork. I filled mine way back when with a large syringe. A turkey baster would probably work. Any overfill will run back out of the filler hole. Put some rags under there to catch the extra fluid.

[rohrt]

I guess I don't fill mine like everyone else. I rigged up a rear gear fluid bottle with a 3/8 hose. I whittled down the end of the hose and screwed it into the motor opening for a tight fit. I fill the jug a little at a time as I work the top up and down. Its like burping a radiator.

One the lines look free from air bubbles I will pinch the end of the fill hose, pull it out of the motor. I will let any over fill spill out on a rag then cap it shut.

Takes me longer to unscrew the well liner then bleed the system.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by rohrt

I guess I don't fill mine like everyone else. I rigged up a rear gear fluid bottle with a 3/8 hose. I whittled down the end of the hose and screwed it into the motor opening for a tight fit. I fill the jug a little at a time as I work the top up and down. Its like burping a radiator.

One the lines look free from air bubbles I will pinch the end of the fill hose, pull it out of the motor. I will let any over fill spill out on a rag then cap it shut.

Takes me longer to unscrew the well liner then bleed the system.


[IMG]http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s545/rohrt/64%20Tempest/DSC03068_zps7a0f08ba.jpg[/IMG

Great idea but Ill just go the turkey baster route. I read somewhere that anything over 75% full is too much. Not sure if thats correct.

[arbys]

In my opinion 75% would put you at the bottom of the fill plug after all the air has been replaced with the fluid.

[richardk]

The top reservoir could be filled with brake fluid, ATF, or a light hydraulic oil. While it's true new brake fluid is clear, really old fluid may not be. Judging by your plcs and seeing the peeling trunk paint and rust under the pump my money's on brake fluid. If you can get a few drops of fluid out of the pump it should be fairly easy to tell what it is as atf would be red an brake fluid would have a pretty distinctive smell.

I hope you won't take offense at my asking, but... You did remember to unlatch the top before trying to fold it down, right? If pressed, I might admit to having made that mistake myself once or twice.

FWIW, here is the official way to fill/bleed the pump, pretty much the way rohrt does it:

[Andre]

I'd been following this thread, but that was on my phone and I didn't want to try and type on that device.

Based on my experience with mid '60's Pontiac convertibles, and currently owning 2, I offer the following observations.

When you place the switch to up mode and your motor fails to make any noise. That means it is not getting any power. The contacts in those switches are known to get grooves in them, or build up so much resistance that they get hot and fail.

Solution to check this- unplug your pump from the power lead. Hook up a battery via cables or a jump box or a strong battery charger. Negative to the pump body, and positive to one of the leads (NOT BOTH) You may need a alligator clip for assistance. The pump should run.

Switch to the connection to the other lead... Pump should run, but in the opposite direction. If the pump fails this test, then it is most likely bad. I kind of doubt that it will. Most likely it will run, and then the culprit is the switch.

Problem 2- Your system is definitely low on fluid. It does seem like brake fluid. Soon as you smell it, you will know. '60's brake fluid has a unique smell to it.

The way the system works is that fluid is pumped from one side of the cylinders for up, and one side of the cylinders for down. When fluid is low, it takes a longer period of time for this fluid to enable the cylinders. Adding fluid will be a temporary fix, but you still have to find where the fluid has leaked to.

Check where your car is parked. Do you see any leak spots a few inches in front of the rear wheels? Can you see any fluid on the bottom of the body? If that is the case, its most likely the cylinder is leaking or the hose has developed a leak. 48 years is a long time for plastic to be flexed without cracking.

I ran into this problem with my unrestored '64 GTO some years back. I opted for new lines, new cylinders and new pump, and went with ATF. Of course now. I almost never put the top up.

To avoid all this work during your summer months, you can also temporarily disconnect the lift cylinders from the top, and operate it manually. That requires some muscle, but if you do it at home, it is a little less embarrassing.

[geeteeohguy]

Easy way to to determine if brake fluid or oil is in there: brake fluid is water soluable. If it washes off or mixes with water, it's brake fluid. If it doesn't mix with water, it's oil. Whatever it is, when you get it working, switch over to ATF. Brake fluid will absorb water and lock up the top motor impellor. BTDT more than once.

[lordtyman]

Aloha, I used this wonderful device to help bleed my system. Worked like a champ and there was no mess and no air in the system when I was done.

http://store.convertibleparts.com/fluid-matic-tool.html

[Old Blue 66]

The big gaps in the lines bothered me so I tried brake fluid first. Now it works better than it did before. It was slow. I made it go up and down a few times and it worked fine.

It did seem to slam down after it completed the up position. Didn't do that before. Normal?

Our season is short around here so all projects are out until at least October. Right now if it works, that's all I need. I'll pull it out and replace the lines and do a better inspection of the motor next winter. I may keep the turkey baster and a small sealed cup of brake fluid in the trunk in case it gives out on me this summer.

I've learned a lot here and this is a great thread for reference. Thanks everyone.

[fyrffytr1]

Paul,
Glad your top is working now. What was the problem?

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by fyrffytr1

Paul,
Glad your top is working now. What was the problem?

Low fluid. We got a leaker somewhere. I find it in the off season.

[geeteeohguy]

Another advantage of ATF, besides not destroying your pump motor, is the fact that if the system leaks (as yours does), you will not be destroying the painted and protected surfaces of the car with spilled brake fluid. No time like the present to dump the brake fluid and install ATF....an hour's worth of work for piece of mind and a saved top motor.

[rohrt]

I like the ATF in the lines because it makes it much easier to see the air bubbles.