[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

The Chebby Gurus will specifically tell you whether they have a LS-1, a LS-3, or a LS-X configuration engine.

Tom Vaught

Whats wrong with that?

[Tom Vaught]

Not a Thing. They do not call it a Chebby Engine either. Even though they are Chebby Guys.

Tom Vaught

[rexs73gto]

The LS engine was designed & platformed from the SBC , even chevy admits that. It is & always will be a chevy designed & built engine.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by rexs73gto

The LS engine was designed & platformed from the SBC , even chevy admits that. It is & always will be a chevy designed & built engine.

Really, seems you've been proven wrong by more than one person and your still saying the same crap. READ and COMPREHEND what's already been posted. Show me where the chevrolet motor division says in print that they design and manufacture the LS engine. Speed equipment companies that also print that it's a chevy engine, aren't proof, they also don't have it correct. FYI, many speed equipment manufacturers that are knowledgeable also list it as a GM engine, and list SBC separately.

Care to explain about your source that you claimed the LS engine was designed in the mid 80s, still waiting for that source.

Before you regurgitate more mis-information maybe you should do some reading about the LS engine and where it was made, who it was designed by. It's painfully obvious you don't deal in facts, even when they're presented right in front of your face.

There is only one thing shared with a SBC, and that's bore spacing, NO PARTS interchange between the 2 engines. The LS engines are as close to a SBC as a ford small block is. IT NEVER HAS BEEN A CHEVY ENGINE and no matter how you try to protest and say it is, it's not!!!!!

I deal in facts and have shown printed matter that clearly states the LS engine was designed by GM powertrain and other than chevy using it in some of their offerings, they have NO connection to the design or manufacture of the LS engines now or before. Your repeatedly saying it, won't change the fact that it's a GM design and manufactured by GM powertrain, not chevy.

[rexs73gto]

What you fail to understand it may say GM powertrain but it is in the chevy plant & if you want to do the build your own engine LS you go the the Chevy plant to do just that. so just by placement the LS is a chevy build engine. You can call it any thing you want but all know the LS is a chevy engine. It doesn't matter if you want to call it GM powertrain or not but the only mgf. of engiens for the last 10 years has & is been chevy, you have to remember that chevy is GM. Period........................ Now you read & comprehend. Plus if your not aware it takes about 10-15 years to get an engine certified anymore when it's a complete new platform & the LS started it's design in the late 80's . I missed by a few years but it was by the old lit. that I use to get in the dealership talking about a new designed engine coming for the Corvette , it started out as a multi-valve engien but it became to much to do so the switched to what we have now in the LS engine family being the veri-valve timing . I got lit. on that in 87-89 when I was still working as a service mgr at the chevy dealer.

[rexs73gto]

I just typed in wikapida for the ls engine & when you go through th LS seris of engines when you get down to the LSX376 engine it states the LSX376 engine built in the Chevrolet performance dept this engine is also of similar design the Harly Earls 1954-56 SBC designed engien, plus that the LS series engine was designed for all the rear wheel drive vehicals only & that the LS1 was designed for the Corvette in 1997 for the Corvette alone & then later used in smaller sizes fro the trucks & SUV & other rear wheel drive vehicals through out the world. Now if being designed in the Chevrolet Performance design center doesn't mean chevy engine then What does????? Chevey is GM & GM is chevy. 1 in the same . Everyone can go the wickipida to see the same thing. Now there your proof. That is direct from Chevy saying it's a Chevy engine. Done Game Set & Match. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[charlie66]

There is only one thing shared with a SBC, and that's bore spacing, NO PARTS interchange between the 2 engines. The LS engines are as close to a SBC as a ford small block is. IT NEVER HAS BEEN A CHEVY ENGINE and no matter how you try to protest and say it is, it's not!!!!!

So with the above statement being said. Therese the difference between Pontiac & chevy. Chevys evolution of changes over the years lead to non-interchangeable parts. At least the venders here are catering to keeping all Pontiac parts interchangeable . So all the new designed parts still bolt on with the exception of some grinding or offset lifters etc.... And yeah.. It may limit the growth of performance some too .

If it still bolts on, its still a Pontiac in my book.. I don't care if it looks a little different. Because its just a trade off in bettering its performance level...

[Tom Vaught]

REX73GTO, By your "plant reasoning" my 64 GTO was a Chevrolet produced vehicle and not a Pontiac because Kansas City used Chevrolet Built Forms/codes/people etc at that plant. But if you want to call a LS design Engine a Chevrolet Engine, go for it.

When you have a Common Engine Design (that goes in multiple body lines) A group like GM Powertrain Engineering would do the whole driveline package and the Chevrolet/Buick/Corvette/Cadillac type groups would INTERFACE with the GM Powertrain Engineering people. The "Brand People" would have the vehicle and the Powertrain people would have the Engine/Trans/4x4 type stuff. That is the way that it has been done since GM Powertrain and Ford Powertrain groups were formed years ago. Early 2000 MY timeframe so about 14 years now.

Tom Vaught

[Sirrotica]

Past, Present, Future

GM powertrain designs, engineers and manufactures engines, transmissions, castings, and components for GM vehicles and other automotive, marine and industrial original equipment manufacturers. It has operating and coordinating responsibility for GM's powertrain manufacturing plants and engineering centers in North and South America, Europe and the Asia-Pacific region, with global headquarters in Pontiac, Mich. The GM Powertrain team includes 86 facilities, 17 countries, and approximately 48,700 members. Powertrain ranks among one of the world's largest automotive suppliers.

Whether it's a 4, 6, or 8 cylinder gasoline or diesel engines, or it's one of our hybrid powertrain offerings, or our automatic and manual transmissions, product offerings provide customers with various levels of power output, fuel economy, towing capability, acceleration and overall engine character to meet their requirements.


GM Powertrain Evolution

GM Powertrain traces its history to the myriad of automotive companies that combined to form GM in 1908. These companies included: Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Oldsmobile and Cadillac. For many decades, each division produced its own engines and transmissions. In time, it became evident that efficiency improvements could be made with increased administrative and manufacturing cooperation between all divisions. The consolidation began in 1983, with the assignment of the Toledo, Ohio Chevrolet and the Windsor, Ontario GM of Canada transmission plants to the Hydra-Matic division. The "marriage" of the Hydra-Matic and GM Engine divisions in 1990, resulted in GM Powertrain. The subsequent addition of Central Foundry Division and Advance Engineering Staff in 1991, elevated Powertrain to corporate group status. In 1997, the formation of a GM global powertrain organization was announced, encompassing all of GM's powertrain engineering and manufacturing activities outside of North America. In 2010 Powertrain and the vehicle organization were joined, creating Global Product Operations.


GM powertrain is not chevy, never was. You can try and twist it any way you'd like and it still will not come out the way you want it. This is right from GM powertrains website.

Doesn't say they're chevrolet and chevrolet is GM powertrain does it? It says that GM powertrain supplies automotive manufacturers with powertrain parts. It also states that they have 86 plants in 17 countries, so much for them being in chevys plant huh?

It also definitively states that they have become a separate corporate group. They are separate entities as I've already said. I see your doing research at 3 in the morning, lots of misspelling on the post, were you drinking when you posted this?

I'm much more confident reading the information directly from the source of GM powertrains website that maintains they are indeed a separate corporate entity, as I've maintained from the beginning. They supply the separate divisions with engines and transmissions and independently design their own offerings. They also offer marine powertrain as well as industrial powertrain.

Chevy performance is marketing name for selling what was previously GM Goodwrench performance parts. The chevy name is more recognized than GM Goodwrench was, the reasoning behind the name switch. As I've already pointed out they also market the cast aluminum Stratostreak valve covers with Pontiac on the covers. They are the aftermarket division for items to enhance the stock offerings from all GM divisions, GMC truck, Cadillac and Buick.

Also Wikipedia is NOT always a reliable source since anyone can have input into their definitions and information. I seldom take anything from Wikipedia as gospel and have found many mistakes in their flawed information.

Harley Earl was a renowned designer of the GM bodies, I have no knowledge of him designing any engines for any GM division. Upon further checking his biography there is no mention of him designing anything engine related in his career, only doing coachwork for GM of which he was a master. Your stories are so flawed no one can take you seriously.

"Done Game Set & Match. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Touche LMAO

[Blued and Painted]

The modern LS does bolt to the old bell housings? A Ford and Honda do not?

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. INSTALL AN LS

Just kidding.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Blued and Painted

The modern LS does bolt to the old bell housings? A Ford and Honda do not?

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. INSTALL AN LS

Just kidding.

For the record, I don't like seeing Stratostreak cars being retrofitted with LS engines and would not ever do that myself. I just want the record set straight that LS is not a chevy engine, it is a corporate engine.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Blued and Painted

The modern LS does bolt to the old bell housings? A Ford and Honda do not?

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. INSTALL AN LS

Just kidding.

Even being a FORD GUY, I think that GM Powertrain did a very nice job on the LS engines (which greatly resemble the 1996 Ford Modular Engine
family in some areas). It some ways I think they did a better job in parts of the design.

Tom Vaught

ps Agree Brad on the WIKIPEDIA point. Anyone can post on that site and the info is rarely checked for absolute truth.

[lugnutt]

Ok
Now what does this have to do with a Pontiac being a Pontiac?

[mike leech]

Well in my opinion....meh. Never mind

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by lugnutt

Ok
Now what does this have to do with a Pontiac being a Pontiac?

I am sure that the Car Show Purists would have another opinion too.

Tom Vaught

[Wareagle]

Originally Posted by rexs73gto

The LS engine was designed & platformed from the SBC , even chevy admits that. It is & always will be a chevy designed & built engine.

X2 In this link its called the Chevy LS engine a # of times - nuff said

http://www.camarotech.com/engine-LS.html

[Bnick166]

How did this thread turn into "when is a Chevy not a Chevy anymore ??" ????
Try to stay on track guys......the thread title is "When is a Pontiac, not a Pontiac anymore ??"

Holy ATD Batman!

[Sirrotica]

Uhhhhhh, Camarotech is the source, and the chevy lovers try to lay claim to something that has nothing to do with their division. The whole controversy was started by one divisions cheerleaders taking credit for something they have no business taking credit for.

The sources I have cited are GM sources, and I believe they fully know who designed and manufactures the LS series engines. NO divisions design or make their own engines any longer, so how can an entity that has no manufacturing facility be designing and building engines? The answer is so simple most anyone can figure it out, they can't and they don't.

Your source has a picture that apparently has a sign that was in a SEMA show or something that has the answer to the question all tidily wrapped up. It says, Darton sleeves, GM LS series TM. Obviously "GM LS series" is a trademarked item held by GM, NOT chevy LS series. The chevy rag has it wrong as do many others.



Just because something is in print in a car magazine doesn't make it a true statement, consider the 421 powered 64 GTO in the infamous Car and Driver road test. The specs said it was a 389, and today we all know better.............

Thanks for proving that GM has it right, and they have trademarked it too, so chevy nor any other division receives no credit for the LS series engine, not much left to argue any longer is there?............

To quote your saying, "nuff said"..........