[68 Firebird]

Anyone have any knowledge or feedback on these.
Crower Camsaver Hydraulic Lifters 66056X3-16
Debating a cam swap and these looked interesting.

Thanks

Gerry

[HWYSTR455]

I haven't made up my mind yet on whether these are a marketing gimmick or actually have some benefit. Cams get plenty of splash, except maybe at idle. So it can be debated if these actually 'work' or provide any 'extra' protection. Guess it couldn't hurt.

The jury is still out on if the rash of lobe failures on HFT cams were a result of poor cores or oil lacking zddp, IMO. I know folks who run off the shelf oils with HFT cams and have for years with no issues.

.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I haven't made up my mind yet on whether these are a marketing gimmick or actually have some benefit. Cams get plenty of splash, except maybe at idle. So it can be debated if these actually 'work' or provide any 'extra' protection. Guess it couldn't hurt.

The jury is still out on if the rash of lobe failures on HFT cams were a result of poor cores or oil lacking zddp, IMO. I know folks who run off the shelf oils with HFT cams and have for years with no issues.

.

I've wondered a lot about same issue...
I worked for an independent auto parts store from 1985-1998. I probably sold 50 SBC cam kits. The #7 exh. lobe on my T/A engine started going away around 75,000 miles. I took better care of that engine and car than probably anyone. Have no idea why that happened... I sold 3 aftermarket cams for T/A 400's through this time. All 3 showed signs of beginning lobe failure, one only had 45,000 miles on it. All 3 were buying cams for a performance upgrade, had no idea lobes were degrading.

I got to watch and ask questions at my engine builders shop one, while his on was installing a cam. I learned a LOT, was surprised at all the details they went to, made sense though.
I believe most cam failures might be from installation error. I even ran across a High Performance Pontiac magazine, last week that the cam lube used was white lithium grease.......that won't work, for sure....

I have not gotten any feedback on any of the latest HFT cam/lifter improvement cures...

[68 Firebird]

Yeah I guess its hit or miss but was just wondering about them.
Seems like anything that's gets quality oil to the cam face is a good thing.

Gerry

[leeklm]

My local Pontiac engine guy was also pointing out that the "old" stock Pontiac rods had a grove cut in the crank-end that would splash & squirt a lot of oil around the cam area.

Not sure how much of that corresponded to longer cam life, but I am sure it certainly did not hurt.

After struggling with this issue previously, I am very hesitant to go flat tappet on my new build, but my car budget is pulling me in that direction, as I do have a very long xmas list for the 73...

I was discussing this with Dave at SD last year as well, and he mentioned they had very good results with the Crower solid flat lifters with the Cool Face design. This is what I am currently leaning towards until I spring for a roller and aluminum heads again.

[geeteeohguy]

I'm running 30+ year old cams and lifters in my GTO's without any issues, but have been using Rotella since about 2006. I think the old cams and lifters were better quality. As for the late '70's thru '80's factory cams getting single flat lobes, a guy I know who used to work for GM told me that a lot of the shafts had flame hardened lobes, and that sometimes the flame would go out on one or two lobes and that the result was a camshaft with a soft lobe or two. A whole bunch of Chevy 305's made in '78-'79 had this issue. So who knows? I have a gut feeling that if you installed an nos 30-40 year old cam and lifters, you would have no issues.

[Nicks67GTO]

These cars used to run for 100-150K miles without any fancy lifters. Im not sure why this stuff is needed? It seems like its a gimmick?

[PONTIAC-ONE]

I'll be trying the SFT Hy-Lift Johnson's with the EDM oil hole on the face in my 72 455.
High quality to begin with and a little extra oil on contact so hopefully no issues.
I've never had any lobe issues in my Pontiac's, but I've never run big cams with stiff valve springs either.
....come to think of it back in the late 80's when I had my 400 re-built I never did any sort of "break in" 20 min @ 2000 rpm stuff, I just drove it, and drove it hard!
I still have that motor.

[rexs73gto]

Ever since they reduced the products in the oils , I have lost 3 cams in the same engine in 2 years. The cams were all made by different people.I have another engine build going on & I'll be using the same cam as this one was broke in with the Joe Gibbs break in oil & have had no problems yet.

[ELKHORNAOG7]

I have the crower hyd. cam savers in my car and with the valley pan off and I primed the engine with a drill I was shocked to see how much oil came onto the cam after seeing this I don't think I'll ever run anything but these again-----BOB

[Steve C.]

Something to consider ?

Pro Plasma™ Nitriding Benefits
● Increases surface lubricity through reduced friction
● Available as an added service for ALL COMP Cams® flat tappet camshafts
● Reduces the chance of premature lobe wear during initial break-in
● Strengthens the contact area between the camshaft lobe & lifter

http://www.compcams.com/nitriding/



.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by rexs73gto

Ever since they reduced the products in the oils , I have lost 3 cams in the same engine in 2 years. The cams were all made by different people.I have another engine build going on & I'll be using the same cam as this one was broke in with the Joe Gibbs break in oil & have had no problems yet.

Not sure but pretty sure most cam manufacturers get their' blanks from the same place, so doesn't always matter where or who you get the final product from. The original issue was the blanks, and there's still a butt-load of them with improper hardening sitting on warehouse shelves.

I can see where additives in oils would cause a faster wear on lobes, like instead of a failure at 100k miles like 75k miles, but lobes that destroy themselves at startup or within a few thousand miles were/are the results of an install issue or a blank hardening issue IMO.

Going solid lifter doesn't solve the soft blank problem by the way, but it does address the poor clearance HYD lifter problem.

Old Pontiac rods did have a 'weep' hole on them which provided more splash, not just on the cam, but bottom of bores/skirts too. That's where the whole 'notch goes towards cam' thing came from on assembly, many can recall that. Think they did away with it since there's plenty of splash in an engine where you don't have to compromise oil on the big ends.

I've seen that option Steve, and wonder if it's a gimmick, like if all the cams get that coating, and it's a way of charging more? Like that 'extended warranty' or 'special undercoating'.

.

[Steve C.]

Sort of related. For those who have street cars with limited use, and often sit for awhile in the garage, it has been stated synthetic oil provides improved cold-start protection compared to mineral oils. Some suggest it 'clings' to parts better', but that is often debated.


.

[rexs73gto]

Bob , I'm not that aware of the cam savers lifters,,? Are they suppose to be left in & if they are & they allow more oil on the cam doesn't that starve the crank form some oil then? It would seem if there was more oil going directly to the cam because of bigger oil openings in the lifters that would have to stop the correct amount of oil to the crank which would make the crank have lees oil & then go out eairlier too??

[PONTIAC-ONE]

Does anyone know if custom ground cams are hardend (again) after the re-grind?....I don't know the order of that process.

[HWYSTR455]

The Crower cam saver lifters have a groove down the side from the oil band down, which allows for more oil at the lobe. It's said it's 'nominal', the amount of oil it takes away, and they only recommend a high volume pump.

The cool face solids they say will show roughly a 2 - 3 psi oil psi drop. That one actually has a piddle hole on the face.

In general, to my knowledge, no, cams are not hardened after grinding a core. They are supposed to be hardened 'deep' enough to allow for the machining process.

.

[Steve C.]

Stated- "Does anyone know if custom ground cams are hardened (again) after the re-grind?"

Clarify. Do you mean sending out a existing cam to be reground ? Or a new 'custom' cam made after ordering it ?

If it's a Comp roller Cam involved for the most part all their solid roller and hydraulic roller cams carry the part number 51-000-9 if custom ordered directly from Comp or from a 'Pontiac' vendor. The dash 9 in the part number is the core code, it's for a 'steel billet roller'.... in a way all Comp roller Cams for a Pontiac application are 'custom' with steel billet cores. Because of the volume involved for a Pontiac application they are typically not made ahead of time and sitting in their warehouse.

Example, note the comment here:
"This part is normally shipped directly from the manufacture / supplier"

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-51-000-9


.

[PONTIAC-ONE]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Stated- "Does anyone know if custom ground cams are hardened (again) after the re-grind?"

Clarify. Do you mean sending out a existing cam to be reground ? Or a new 'custom' cam made after ordering it ?

If it's a Comp roller Cam involved for the most part all their solid roller and hydraulic roller cams carry the part number 51-000-9 if custom ordered directly from Comp or from a 'Pontiac' vendor. The dash 9 in the part number is the core code, it's for a 'steel billet roller'.... in a way all Comp roller Cams for a Pontiac application are 'custom' with steel billet cores. Because of the volume involved for a Pontiac application they are typically not made ahead of time and sitting in their warehouse.

Example, note the comment here:
"This part is normally shipped directly from the manufacture / supplier"

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-51-000-9


.

HFT or SFT new custom ordered from the cam manufacturer, not sent out.

[Tim Corcoran]

I believe that one of the contributing factors to camshaft/lifter failure is when the lifters started being made off shore, primarily in China around the same time ZDDP levels were being reduced. If you use a flat tappet lifter I highly recommend Hy-Lift Johnson. They are made in the USA in Muskegon Michigan with all US materials. The only flat tappet lifter I sell or trust in an engine is Hy-Lift Johnson. They make two versions of hydraulic flat tappet lifters for Pontiac, 951 and 951R. I only use and sell the 951R because they have a more consistent leak down rate. They also make solid flat tappets, regular and one with a .015 oil hole in the face of the lifter.

The Crower "Cool Face" solid lifter does bleed a lot of oil in fact Crower even recommends using a high volume oil pump with those lifters. The Hy-lift Johnson solid lifter with the EDM oil hole option, the EDM oil hole is only .015" and is much smaller than the oil hole in the Crowers and does not bleed off much oil at all but does provide oil directly to the lobe.

[leeklm]

Tim,

I noticed that the 5115OH part # is the same for Chevy & Pontiac. Do you know if these have the correct oil band for a pontiac block? I would have to assume yes if a major mfg is listing it as compatible...