[twinturrbo406]

... I'm curious to hear/read what others feel about when does a Pontiac stop being a Pontiac ?? ...

... we all have our own opinions, but I think it could be useful/interesting information concerning not just cylinder head design, but block design also ?? ...

... what do you guys think ?? ...

[Bnick166]

I feel if it retains the front timing cover (Or a modified version w/ a more modern water pump) and a reasonable facsimile of the lifter valley cover.....it's a Pontiac.

[charlie66]

It will always be a Pontiac..... Just call it an after market Pontiac if its got the good stuff on it?

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by Bnick166

I feel if it retains the front timing cover (Or a modified version w/ a more modern water pump) and a reasonable facsimile of the lifter valley cover.....it's a Pontiac.

Originally Posted by charlie66

It will always be a Pontiac..... Just call it an after market Pontiac if its got the good stuff on it?

... I tend to think that Bore-Space is the key to it still being a Pontiac, imo, as there have been a multitude of cylinder heads designed by Pontiac (SOHC, Hemi, RA-V, etc.) over the years, different deck height blocks, bore & stroke obviously has changed, reverse cooling, EFI, valve angles too, but as far as I know the bore-space has remained ...

... I don't know of any significant changes to the lifter/cam area, but maybe I'm wrong ...

[Blued and Painted]

My first knee jerk answer would be, anything beyond a round port E-head should have a Modified in front of PMD. On second thought, the RA-V opens up the door to all the cylinder head SciFi Madness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFCM6TZgTMI

[JD311]

if you can move the bore space a slight bit within the same block dimensions with same main spacing and an old d port head bolts on its a pontiac. I went to a machine shop and they had a windowed top fuel block with old 440 heads on it on display lol. It was still a mopar to me!

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by JD311

if you can move the bore space a slight bit within the same block dimensions with same main spacing and an old d port head bolts on its a pontiac. I went to a machine shop and they had a windowed top fuel block with old 440 heads on it on display lol. It was still a mopar to me!

For me you can move the bore space what ever you want within the same block dimensions with same main spacing.

Stan

[Stan Weiss]

I saw Bert Straus's Pontiac Pro Stock Astre "Chief Chilly Willy" at Englishtown in 1974 where it qualified very well. It had Pontiac iron heads on it but the ports were somewhere else. But at the time everyone still called it a Pontiac.

Stan

[Aaron Quinton]

If factory heads will bolt onto the block I'm good ... until a 4.90" bore spacing block is available.

[Old Goat Racer]

1982

[charlie66]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... I tend to think that Bore-Space is the key to it still being a Pontiac, imo, as there have been a multitude of cylinder heads designed by Pontiac (SOHC, Hemi, RA-V, etc.) over the years, different deck height blocks, bore & stroke obviously has changed, reverse cooling, EFI, valve angles too, but as far as I know the bore-space has remained ...

... I don't know of any significant changes to the lifter/cam area, but maybe I'm wrong ...

Its just like evolution and time effect us as people.

We all get better with age because of are experiences . So does this mean we are not that person anymore , or are we just evolved . So I think if were still buying Pontiac parts for it, its still a Pontiac . So what if they look different. That's the price you pay for making something better.. I still call my mother my mother . And she looks a lot different now then when I was 10... Ok ill stop now. This getting a little out of hand.. Lol! I hope you get what im trying to say........ Im sure I'm
going to get ranked on for this one. Lol...

[twinturrbo406]

... so what's the opinion on lifter-bore design/placement and cam tunnel design changes ?? ... as in moved lifter bores, size options, cam journal design changes ?? ...

... Pontiac or not Pontiac ?? ...

[Lee]

I remember seeing "PMD" on some older Pontiacs, which stood for Pontiac MOTOR Division.

Of course, it could no longer be a "motor" division of GM after 1981, so it effectively became the Pontiac Design Division of GM.

Regardless of era, the Pontiac version of whatever GM allowed them to produce was always more attractive than the Chevy version.

That said, I prefer for PMD-era Pontiacs to STILL be powered by Pontiac (exceptions being for F-bodies that came with 403 Olds from the factory, I give them a waiver).

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... so what's the opinion on lifter-bore design/placement and cam tunnel design changes ?? ... as in moved lifter bores, size options, cam journal design changes ?? ...

... Pontiac or not Pontiac ?? ...

Bill,
If it is OK to move cam lobes around to change the firing order then anything inside of the block to do with the cam for me is fair game.

Stan

[David Holmberg]

"I still have my Great Grandfathers shovel. Its had 5 new handles and 2 new heads, but its still his".

In racing every part is modified or massaged, as long as you're not putting a BBC or other brand motor in it you're good with me.

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by David Holmberg

"I still have my Great Grandfathers shovel. Its had 5 new handles and 2 new heads, but its still his".

In racing every part is modified or massaged, as long as you're not putting a BBC or other brand motor in it you're good with me.

... I agree David, but while I have you here, you think you can look into my profile, as I am not able to send PM's for some reason ?? ... I can respond to them, but that's all ...

... thanks ...

[GREATGTO]

The way I see it Pontiac is dead and gone,make new products anyway you want.

None of the car makers run the same engine designs from 40 years ago or longer.

Maybe you could call certain parts nostalgia or traditional and then have parts listed as newly designed modern technology parts for aftermarket Pontiac .

Bottom line the market for improved technology Pontiac parts is very small,someone could probably make more money producing and selling cast iron d-port reproduction heads than any of the other heads on the market. A 300 cfm iron head with plenty of material left for durability and better cooling would sell really well,sad but true.

[hobi]

ONES PERCEPTION IS HIS REALITY just like THE METALFINISHER SAID AT THE 1978 GTO NATIONALS YOU CAN BELIEVE OR DISBELIEVE WHATEVER YOU WANT BUT I KNOW WHAT I HAVE BUILT:jumpin g:

[Wareagle]

Originally Posted by Aaron Quinton

If factory heads will bolt onto the block I'm good ... until a 4.90" bore spacing block is available.

Yes - IA II and MR1 Blocks - pure Pontiac - which are run in this 7 sec. GTO & 7 sec. GXP

[Jack Ferris]

Factory bore spacing, ten head bolts= Pontiac
Beyond that, purpose built aftermarket racing engine.
1000 people, 1000 different opinions. Not wrong, just different. The above is mine.