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Old 07-05-2020, 08:50 AM
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This is warning to all. Check your lifters. Open them an inspect them.

I opened 3 more. All have same problem.

Comp cams has also unburred holes but there seems to be no flakes like in crowers.

Surprising is that i bought 1 sealed power lifter, its mint. Hole is depurred, finishing all around the lifter is almost perfect. It has metering plate with strong stans that looks much better than crowers....

Lets see what comp and crower will say to these claims.

Im pissed and exhausted. I have waited whole summer to get this engine together because of this...

  #62  
Old 07-05-2020, 09:31 AM
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Is there any reason why you haven't used the Hy Lift Johnson or Rhoads?

Both of those come highly recommended when it comes to hydraulic flat tappets.

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  #63  
Old 07-05-2020, 09:40 AM
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I cant source hy lifts anywhere. I have asked here and messaged them directly. But no one knows where i can buy them.

Rhoads i considered but they don't have normal lifters, only the variable type. I read they are hard to adjust or require ajusting while running engine.

But i felt they were on same level with crower after reading this topic. But i was wrong...

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Old 07-05-2020, 09:58 AM
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There’s a member on this forum, Paul K I believe. I’m pretty sure he sells the HyLift Johnson HFT lifters

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Old 07-05-2020, 10:10 AM
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Yep Hy Lift hydraulic flat tappets are available. As suggested Paul K can hook you up.
It's the roller versions that have been hit and miss on availability.

Rhoads are easily adjusted, don't need the engine running to do so. In fact I wouldn't recommend doing it that way. The newer versions can be run pretty tight now too if so desired.

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Old 07-05-2020, 10:35 AM
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Paul is out of them. Because covid.

I have talked with him in private messages, was actually with him i got idea to get crower lifters. He thought they used hylifts. But at least not anymore they use. Or maybe its covid thing too.

Here is pic of all lifters i currently have inspected.



Here is link to my album pics of lifters here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WH3KF2YWbxtEV3zH6

For what i can make out the Sealed Power is actually the best of the punch after hylift.
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Last edited by Karck; 07-05-2020 at 11:34 AM.
  #67  
Old 07-05-2020, 11:57 AM
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Interesting. So they all use check discs now instead of the check ball and spring.

Sent from my SM-T817V using Tapatalk

  #68  
Old 07-05-2020, 11:58 AM
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Balls and small spring is in all of them inside the small plunger bottom. I just didnt want to open those. You can see them inside the plungers in few of them.

Edit: Trying to find picture host site that does not reduce quality...
Edit2: Here https://flic.kr/s/aHsmPftNhc You can openthe picture and then download orginal size, you can zoom in the lifters to see the finish yourself.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...d7fc09d0_o.jpg - This is the worse of the 3 i opened from Crower Cams
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...d7fc09d0_o.jpg - All 4 lifter brands lined up.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...fcca4f98_o.jpg - Sealed Power lifter 951
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...73ca7b8d_o.jpg - Crower cams Camsaver lifter (This is not the worst lifter btw!)
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...8e5494e8_o.jpg - Comcams lifter
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...066d21a2_o.jpg- Hylift Johnson used orginal lifter


Last edited by Karck; 07-05-2020 at 12:38 PM.
  #69  
Old 07-05-2020, 03:26 PM
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I just had a failure about 2 months ago.
New build; the familiar 6X-4, 041, 464.
The builder insisted i didnt want rhoads in there so i asked for hylift; which apparently werent available.
I'm comparing my lifters to your photo and mine appear to be sealed power.
Anyway... one started tapping hard at break in. I pulled it apart to find one lifter 3/16" smaller than the rest. #8 exhaust. Cam had minimal damage. Melling spc-8.
I flushed the block as best i could and installed a new cam with Rhoads. Noisy but good. I also found a deal on a bypass filter and installed it.

I've noticed that my Rhoads have a noticeable bulge at the bottom, and appear to have been machined there.
the ones i pulled out seem to be completely flat on the bottom, with no evidence of wear at all, except for the one that failed. When setting up the rhoads i could see my pushrods spinning while i turned the engine by hand.

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Old 07-05-2020, 03:53 PM
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Unhappy Lifters

That is a travesty to see inside a new lifter.
When I installed my Crowers I opened up a few
And they were spotless inside. Decided all was good
And maybe I just got lucky. With all the downsizing and
Reboxxing nowadays its a crap shoot.
Sorry for pain. I would almost start looking for NOS on eBay?
Gerry.

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  #71  
Old 07-05-2020, 04:03 PM
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Flat
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  #72  
Old 07-05-2020, 04:37 PM
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Post #23 , Yes, ALWAYS disassemble and check them!

The Sealed Power ones are a min of RC55 hardness on the lifter face, the entire body is cast iron alloy.

In the day, I used them and they were good, don't recall ever having a failure, but they use a bail wire, and not a snap ring, so they can come apart in extreme conditions. They used to make one with a snap ring, think they were listed as anti-pump up, but I can't recall exactly what the part number was, or if they are still made. I think they had an 'R' at the end of the part numbers though. Sealed Power, Melling, and SpeedPro are all the same company I think.

Isky makes one that is unique to Isky, they have a patent on them, and have heard rumors the oil band is correct for a Pontiac, but I've never physically held one. They are anti-pump up type, with a snap ring.

Lunati ones are also unique, have a snap ring, are anti-pump up, and considered 'performance' use lifters. Again, I have not held one physically in my hand, but have heard others use them in non-Pontiacs with success.


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  #73  
Old 07-05-2020, 06:27 PM
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If Paul is out of Hylift Johnson’s you might be able to source them from one of the cam companies. Bullet Racing Cams sells Hylift J with their cam kits.

Hylift J make lifter bodies for Rhoads and Rhoads mods them.

Isky just has one part # for .842” lifters listed for all GM. Not sure what the oil band matches up with, but I also don’t recall anyone having issues related to the oil band. I think another company does the lifter bodies for them. Not sure who theses days.

Is anyone Rockwell testing every lifter? Wouldn’t they be checking percentages of a batch of casings?

WoW. 3/16” to small!!! That is some bad QC

  #74  
Old 07-05-2020, 07:43 PM
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My mistake, I meant the lifter had worn 3/16" during break in. But the cam didnt wear much at all. (I replaced it anyway).
I pulled the rest of the lifters and they looked like new but they were flat on the bottom. no cone or convex at all.
The rhoads i've installed had the circlip and the bottoms were coned a bit; enough that you could see it if you stood it on a flat surface.

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Old 07-05-2020, 07:56 PM
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Lol, that makes more sense.

One of the better points of the hylift Johnsons is they achieve that surface finish on the lifter face without micro pollishing, I think their tooling cuts the surface that fine. The other companies that use the micro polishing on the face of the lifter end up with some bell mouthing on the lifter face compared to hylift J. IRC they have a extremely slight tapper on the lifter face to keep the lifter spinning on the cam lobe. Probably mostly really helps on the brake in period.

I think Johnson Lifters (not Hylift J)makes Isky’s roller lifter bodies. Johnson makes Chevy and Buick flat tappet hydrualics lifters, very high quality. I wonder Johnson is doing the flat tappets for Isky?

  #76  
Old 07-06-2020, 03:21 AM
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Isky lifters are shorter in size so new pushrods a are needed.

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Old 07-06-2020, 06:13 AM
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As long as we're posting nudies, here's a Lunati lifter from years ago. Notice that the part number ends in "...951" which may or may not mean anything.


  #78  
Old 07-06-2020, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurkey View Post
As long as we're posting nudies, here's a Lunati lifter from years ago. Notice that the part number ends in "...951" which may or may not mean anything.

That is Sealed Power 951R I think.

First of my linked pictures was wrong link!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...444bacc4_o.jpg

This was the worst of the crower lifters i found.

AND PLEASE POST ALL LIFTER NUDIES YOU HAVE!
It helps me to do a collection of lifters and their innards, ranking them from worst to best.

ALSO! I have been looking these metering plates for while now, and i dont get why they dont have hole in them like Hylifts have.
Im very tempted to just modify one of these metering plates py drilling tiny hole on the to allow oilflow to the pushrod cup.

Currently it seems the common fail on all of these lifters is that they trust in that the oil splashing on the metering plate when lifter is thrown up by the cam. Im looking at this as failure in engineering.


Last edited by Karck; 07-06-2020 at 06:44 AM.
  #79  
Old 07-06-2020, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karck View Post
I cant source hy lifts anywhere. I have asked here and messaged them directly. But no one knows where i can buy them.

Rhoads i considered but they don't have normal lifters, only the variable type. I read they are hard to adjust or require ajusting while running engine.

But i felt they were on same level with crower after reading this topic. But i was wrong...
They will sell you regular lifters. Have them check them out first. I've bought reg 951R hyd lifters from them many times..

I have a bunch of Johnson lifters from the 70s. Some were taken apart, I was going to make bleed down lifters by putting small plugners into large bodys so they leak.. Its an old trick that works well but came to my senses and put a 068 cam in that 455. Never regretted it either, that 041 was such a power sucker!

  #80  
Old 07-14-2020, 05:01 AM
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https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1594717193

To mix up the ****... Sealed Power, is using Johnson lifters.. On Hylif-Johnsons part numbers...

Things are so crooked.

Found this thread: http://www.pontiaczone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28192 ITs completely same issue i had!
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Last edited by Karck; 07-14-2020 at 05:22 AM.
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