[Michael V]

I have been receiving conflicting info. Will 1967 670's work on a 1960 389 block?

[b-man]

Yes. The head bolt pattern never changed so any head can be used on any block with the correct gaskets and bolts.

Just use the head bolts, pushrods, rockers and valve covers from the 670 heads as well as a ‘65 or later factory or aftermarket intake.

You will have to plug the thermostat bypass port on the front of the intake manifold if you’re using the 1960 timing cover.

[Tom Vaught]

How much lift (Camshaft) are you planning on running in this engine?

If I remember correctly, the 670 heads use the later valve angle and the larger diameter intake valve.
What pistons do you have installed in the 1960 engine?

Tom V.

[Michael V]

I appreciate the details. I am trying to help a friend sell the 670 heads. I do.not want to give anyone any misleading info when they ask. Someone has asked about the 60 engine and if the 670 heads will work. I have relayed what you two have suggested / asked.

[steve25]

With a stock 389 Pistons and its average .023" deck clearance and average head gasket thickness the 670s will have no issues provided the Cam used has a lift of less then .425" at the valve.

If the 670 heads have had a valve job done then .015" more valve lift can likely be run .

[AC445]

Hello all, with this combo should he block the through the rocker stud oil passage and use push-rod oiling ? Thanks

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by AC445

Hello all, with this combo should he block the through the rocker stud oil passage and use push-rod oiling ? Thanks

If he’s got later studs, they will block the passage. The later head will too.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by b-man

Yes. The head bolt pattern never changed so any head can be used on any block with the correct gaskets and bolts.

Just use the head bolts, pushrods, rockers and valve covers from the 670 heads as well as a ‘65 or later factory or aftermarket intake.

You will have to plug the thermostat bypass port on the front of the intake manifold if you’re using the 1960 timing cover.

Bart,
You still fool'n with that 59 389? I see you had some older tri power stuff for sale...
Just wondering...
Jeff

[b-man]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

Bart,
You still fool'n with that 59 389? I see you had some older tri power stuff for sale...
Just wondering...
Jeff

Not doing anything with it at the moment. Came to my senses and sold most of the Tri-Power stuff I gathered for it.

Garage is kinda full, probably should find another home for it along with a bunch of other stuff I’ll probably never do anything with.

[T/A76]

I believe you can bore the 389 0.060 and use standard bore 400 pistons and then you can use higher lift cams with the 670 heads.

[PontiacJim1959]

Originally Posted by T/A76

I believe you can bore the 389 0.060 and use standard bore 400 pistons and then you can use higher lift cams with the 670 heads.

And notching the tops of the cylinders a bit to match the valves.

[steve25]

Another big concideration with running closed chamber heads as opposed to open chamber heads is how inefficient there burn is.

For a proper full throttle air to fuel ratio they may need to be 10% richer then the way you would have a Carb jetted for open chambers heads!

At a minimum through out the motors operating range the Carb feeding 670 or earlyier heads will need to 5% richer.

This is why these heads needed air injection pumps back then in CA.

[charlie66]

Do you have to chanfer the cylinder for the bigger valves?

[sdbob]

Back in 69. I had a 55 Pontiac. I put a 1960 389 in it but used 65 GTO heads and pistons, rods. Machinist didnt balance but engine ran very good with 068 cam. I didnt know about oil block off to heads. Just used 65 gaskets.

[PontiacJim1959]

Originally Posted by charlie66

Do you have to chanfer the cylinder for the bigger valves?

Here are 2 diagrams that show the difference in the 389/400 head. Valve angle, valve placement, and spacing was changed on the 1967 and up heads.

Any swap of later heads on the 1966 and earlier block should be verified to ensure the valves will not hit anything - to include the piston tops as the valve reliefs for the 389 are not a match for the 400 heads.

So it depends on how big of a lift your cam has.

This is why it is recommended to bore .060" and use the 400CI pistons as you are essentially building a 400CI. However, boring .060" over "uses up" the cylinders for future rebuilds. If you can get away with a .020", 030", or .040" overbore, you leave more cylinder wall for another overbore IF needed on the next rebuild. I am no machinist and there are others here that are. Some would recommend sonic checking the bores when going .060" over. Not so much a concern with .030". Sleeving can always bring a block back to original bore size, but the cost of doing this can become expensive, but it is an alternative if needing to keep/save the original numbers matching block.

Chamfering the tops of the block will provide clearance for the valves as well as better flow by unshrouding the valves. Again, I do not know at what lift you would need to do this. The scallops in the head for the 389 valves vs 400 valves is also different in their location, so you may also want to check on the correct head gasket use for this swap - which I will assume will be the 400 gasket. You do not want any gasket material over hanging into the cylinder. Should not be a problem per say, just select the one needed.

Hopefully others will chime in. Have seen this question asked a number of times, but have not seen anyone post the complete process of what it took to do this swap or what areas during the swap needed to be checked or addressed.

[charlie66]

Originally Posted by PontiacJim1959

Here are 2 diagrams that show the difference in the 389/400 head. Valve angle, valve placement, and spacing was changed on the 1967 and up heads.

Any swap of later heads on the 1966 and earlier block should be verified to ensure the valves will not hit anything - to include the piston tops as the valve reliefs for the 389 are not a match for the 400 heads.

So it depends on how big of a lift your cam has.

This is why it is recommended to bore .060" and use the 400CI pistons as you are essentially building a 400CI. However, boring .060" over "uses up" the cylinders for future rebuilds. If you can get away with a .020", 030", or .040" overbore, you leave more cylinder wall for another overbore IF needed on the next rebuild. I am no machinist and there are others here that are. Some would recommend sonic checking the bores when going .060" over. Not so much a concern with .030". Sleeving can always bring a block back to original bore size, but the cost of doing this can become expensive, but it is an alternative if needing to keep/save the original numbers matching block.

Chamfering the tops of the block will provide clearance for the valves as well as better flow by unshrouding the valves. Again, I do not know at what lift you would need to do this. The scallops in the head for the 389 valves vs 400 valves is also different in their location, so you may also want to check on the correct head gasket use for this swap - which I will assume will be the 400 gasket. You do not want any gasket material over hanging into the cylinder. Should not be a problem per say, just select the one needed.

Hopefully others will chime in. Have seen this question asked a number of times, but have not seen anyone post the complete process of what it took to do this swap or what areas during the swap needed to be checked or addressed.

Thanks.

I had to chanfer mine when i put e-heads on my motor. Looks like 670 are closer to the cyl wall...

[stevep]

Will you be able to cool it??

[389]

I'd look at the 068 (if you can find one) or the Summit 2801 if the compression is low enough. A Nunzi 2041 would be great!! Stay under 10:1 like 9 or 9.5... The little bit of performance that point or two will give you will never be worth it due to detuning. If you run low compression you can crank timing up and have some real fun on the street..

[HydroBob]

At one time I ran a '59 block .060 over with 670 heads, tri-power and 068 cam. It was a great combo but I strongly suggest checking the valve to piston clearances just to be sure. Also, you need to tap and plug the oil gallery in the deck of the block since you will be using through the pushrod oiling.

[tom s]

The oil hole in the block does not have to be blocked.Tom