THE LOBBY A gathering place. Introductions, sports, showin' off your ride, birthday-anniversary-milestone, achievements, family oriented humor.

          
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 03-26-2023, 08:56 AM
The Champ's Avatar
The Champ The Champ is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 2,534
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62 View Post
Nurburgring times do NOT translate into REALITY. I’m 6’7” tall/340 lbs (think an NFL defensive tackle). I have driven both a Challenger and my wife’s ‘14 Camaro LS convertible. For me, the Challenger has more leg and shoulder room plus it doesn’t beat you to death like the Camaro does. Three hours in a Camaro is nearly inhumane punishment! An hour and a half on a warm fall day with the top down? A pleasant distraction from life. BTW…drove the Camaro through both Philly and D.C. on the way back to FL(where we lived when she bought it). I was nine years younger but I still found it uncomfortable at the three hour mark.
First of all, Nürburgring show how a car handles. That is REALITY.

As to the rest of your comments - what you're telling me is your prefer (actually require) a bigger car. I get that. But it doesn't mean the Challenger is the BETTER car.

  #42  
Old 03-26-2023, 11:35 AM
hurryinhoosier62 hurryinhoosier62 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Floyd Co., IN/SE KY
Posts: 3,930
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Champ View Post
First of all, Nürburgring show how a car handles. That is REALITY.

As to the rest of your comments - what you're telling me is your prefer (actually require) a bigger car. I get that. But it doesn't mean the Challenger is the BETTER car.
Precisely WHERE on any public highway are you going to find a roadway where you can test that handling? That ISN’T reality; it’s the pipe dream of wannabe road racers who assume they are Niki Lauda. Have you driven both? What is your metric other than a nameplate? Ever driven a Camaro for more than the length of a test drive? I have nearly nine YEARS actual driving experience in the Camaro. On short trips( less than three hours) it’s a great vehicle; it genuinely SUCKS on longer trips, especially if you get tangled up in traffic and are sitting.

__________________
“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.”

Dr. Thomas Sowell
  #43  
Old 03-26-2023, 12:24 PM
Stuart's Avatar
Stuart Stuart is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 7,938
Default

Take your arguments elsewhere, please. Saying the Challenger is better than the Camaro, or the Camaro is better than the Challenger, is pointless - it all comes down to personal needs and preferences.

  #44  
Old 03-26-2023, 07:01 PM
unruhjonny's Avatar
unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,232
Default

I don’t think anyone actually said the any non-GM product was better per say.

I think the quibbling is that GM seems to have lost sight with what your every day driver wants in a car.

Even though I was still upset with GM for killing the Firebird, then Pontiac all together, on some level I wanted to like the Camaro, but they always seemed to miss the mark;
I really paid attention when the Mustang and Camaro came out with boosted four cylinder versions;
Not because I am all about four bangers, but they are generally on lower entry level priced cars, and can act as a decent stop gap from a sport compact to a real V8 pony car - and can be cheaper to drive based on fuel economy (smaller engines typically require less fuel).

IIRC one of the last articles/reviews on the 2.0l-turbo Camaro essentially summed it up to say that the car was boring in spite of all it had going for it on paper… even though the writer wanted to give it rave reviews, he just couldn’t - and that right there seems to get the jist of it…

GM is pouring money into cars that very few people younger than baby-boomers can afford (Caddilacs and mid engined Corvettes), then complains that they don’t sell enough of models that are intended for enthusiasts - meanwhile those same models intended for the enthusiast market miss the mark for the very same buying audience - and then they shoot themselves in the foot and try to upsell to that very market segment… which further hurts their model sales.

Meanwhile the other guys are making cars that the buying base respond to… and the sales numbers say it all.

I still love my daily driver;
If GM would have kept building them, I would have bought another.
I believe GM declared my daily driver to be a failure, in spite of the model being launched at an economic down turn which nearly bankrupt GM;
This Chevrolet(!) is a fantastic car that has gained something of a following in the time since it was discontinued;
I love the GM Performance Division seats, and this model held a Nürburgring record for (I believe it was) over a decade!

__________________
1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)

Last edited by unruhjonny; 03-26-2023 at 07:25 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to unruhjonny For This Useful Post:
  #45  
Old 03-26-2023, 09:28 PM
59safaricat 59safaricat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Land of the fee, home of the slave
Posts: 246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart View Post
Take your arguments elsewhere, please. Saying the Challenger is better than the Camaro, or the Camaro is better than the Challenger, is pointless - it all comes down to personal needs and preferences.
Enjoy all new muscle cars while they last, they will soon be gone.....again....for good.

The Following User Says Thank You to 59safaricat For This Useful Post:
  #46  
Old 03-26-2023, 09:50 PM
Scarebird's Avatar
Scarebird Scarebird is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ABQ, USA
Posts: 4,998
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 59safaricat View Post
Enjoy all new muscle cars while they last, they will soon be gone.....again....for good.
Not so sure on that.

Imagine a 2 door sport coupe the size of a late 90's Integra or Ferrari 360, AWD with 200+ mile range, superb handling and 13 second acceleration, hatch, large greenhouse with good visibility.

Not every pony car has to be a fire-breathing monster.

  #47  
Old 03-27-2023, 09:08 AM
Mr Anonymous's Avatar
Mr Anonymous Mr Anonymous is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Waynesville, OH
Posts: 394
Default

I'd take a used Cadillac CT6 any day. Even with the occasionally troublesome Super Cruise. What a solid, high speed highway car. I'm 53, fat, angry, and need something worth owning.

__________________
Clutch Guys Matter
_______________________________________
53 Studebaker, 400P/th400/9"
64 F-85
72 4-4-2 Mondello's VO Twister II
84 Hurst/Olds #2449
87 Cutlass Salon
54 Olds 88 sedan
  #48  
Old 03-27-2023, 11:08 AM
stevesbirds stevesbirds is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 6
Default

Did you catch ghat GM is spending almost 1 billion on new V8 motor design speed across r plants on Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, and New York.

I would guess they need a new fresh design to do a atomized fuel spray in the cylinder, plus multiple cams. Anyway, at least for the truck market and service industries, that bridges the next 10 to 15 years most likely. We know 15% ethanol isn't going away and maybe they are designing toward that alternative.

The Following User Says Thank You to stevesbirds For This Useful Post:
  #49  
Old 03-27-2023, 12:47 PM
1965gp 1965gp is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 948
Default

I really wanted to like the new Camaros. When they came out with that Synergy Green man I wanted that car. Same thing with the bright yellow 6th gen. My dad did too. We both drove it and it just wasn’t a comfortable car. It wasn’t enjoyable for me. When my truck was stolen I rented a Hendrick racing Camaro for a week. No convenient cup holders, no where to put my phone, the console was so big when I picked up my daughter she held her bag in her lap because it was too much effort to put it in the backseat.

Now I drive my other daughters Mustang and it is much easier, more convenient and has more places to put things.

In my opinion the car didn’t sell because it wasn’t comfortable. I think it looked good, had power, just wasn’t enjoyable.

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:27 PM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017