[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by 78w72

Yes, was referring to the comment about you would feel better running a factory crank... "that has never been magnafluxed", that implied or sounded like magnafluxing was a bad thing somehow, just trying to clarify for others that may read that & think its better to have a crank thats never been mag'd.

A wise person WILL magnaflux any crank they plan on using in a high performance application. I won’t build an engine with a crank that hasn’t been magnafluxed.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by steve25

Nothing against Eagle products as I have used a lot of there Rods, but In terms of a 3.750” stroke I would feel better running a factory crank out of a 2 bbl 350 motor that has never seen more then 4400 rpm and that has never been magnafluxed then a new cast crank.

Steve, explain your trepidation with magnetic particle inspections. You do realize the cranks are demagnetized after being inspected?

[steve25]

I have nothing against that process.

What I was meaning by my comment that I did not convey well enough was that I would feel safer running a factory crank right out of a motor that has led a easy life and not magnafluxing it then run any new aftermarket cast crank that’s out there now.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by steve25

I have nothing against that process.

What I was meaning by my comment that I did not convey well enough was that I would feel safer running a factory crank right out of a motor that has led a easy life and not magnafluxing it then run any new aftermarket cast crank that’s out there now.

I can agree with your position. It is WHY I purchased a 4” stroke Armasteel crank and am having it converted to 3”mains and BBC rod journals. I really don’t need a forged crank for what I’m building.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

I can agree with your position. It is WHY I purchased a 4” stroke Armasteel crank and am having it converted to 3”mains and BBC rod journals. I really don’t need a forged crank for what I’m building.

How much does it cost to have all that done ? Its about a grand for a 4340 crank.I will do a 4" build in a 455 block at some point.
Might just use a 428 crank but kicking myself for selling my 4340 4" 3.25 crank.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

How much does it cost to have all that done ? Its about a grand for a 4340 crank.I will do a 4" build in a 455 block at some point.
Might just use a 428 crank but kicking myself for selling my 4340 4" 3.25 crank.

$50 to have the crank magnafluxed; $250 to have it reground. Add in the $50 for the initial purchase of the crank I’ll have $350 invested in it unless I choose to have it cryo treated and nitrided. The impurities in Chinese forgings and castings are why I am going this route. If “Grocery Getter” can survive with an OE nodular crank and a 500 hp shot of nitrous without breaking a crank I believe a 3” main 421 with only 500hp won’t.

[i82much]

Not disputing your logic, but I have seen very few examples of broken chinese forgings.

[steve25]

Forging’s?

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

$50 to have the crank magnafluxed; $250 to have it reground. Add in the $50 for the initial purchase of the crank I’ll have $350 invested in it unless I choose to have it cryo treated and nitrided. The impurities in Chinese forgings and castings are why I am going this route. If “Grocery Getter” can survive with an OE nodular crank and a 500 hp shot of nitrous without breaking a crank I believe a 3” main 421 with only 500hp won’t.

What are you planning on doing with the thrust ? Shim kit, spray weld ?
I bought a crank years ago online that the seller said was forged. It was a 3.25 crank with 4.25 stoke. Originally came from Crankshaft Specialist so I had it sent straight to them from the seller and had back to them and ground to 3" mains and thrust welded, double knife edged and gun drilled down to 65lbs.
It has square cheeks and I did not get corkscrews with a 1/8" bit around flexplate area.
So I assume its cast.
But it did get the thrust welded and I never got a straight answer from CS. If they tried to weld it like a forging and it was cast there is going to be a problem. But crank looks perfect. The counterweights a VERY shiny where profiled, they said it looks like a billet.
Still I assume its cast.
Good luck with your build.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by steve25

Forging’s?

Post #26

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

What are you planning on doing with the thrust ? Shim kit, spray weld ?
I bought a crank years ago online that the seller said was forged. It was a 3.25 crank with 4.25 stoke. Originally came from Crankshaft Specialist so I had it sent straight to them from the seller and had back to them and ground to 3" mains and thrust welded, double knife edged and gun drilled down to 65lbs.
It has square cheeks and I did not get corkscrews with a 1/8" bit around flexplate area.
So I assume its cast.
But it did get the thrust welded and I never got a straight answer from CS. If they tried to weld it like a forging and it was cast there is going to be a problem. But crank looks perfect. The counterweights a VERY shiny where profiled, they said it looks like a billet.
Still I assume its cast.
Good luck with your build.

Spacers under either an Olds or GM 6.2/6.5 thrust bearing. Unless you know the welder personally, it isn’t advisable to weld a cast nodular crank. The best I ever saw was an old guy we had at JET who was an absolute virtuoso when it came to welding cast iron cranks( He passed many years ago). Other than him, I don’t know a single welder I would trust with a cast nodular crank.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by i82much

Not disputing your logic, but I have seen very few examples of broken chinese forgings.

I’ve seen more than I like. The only Chinese crank forgings I would trust are those from Molnar or SCAT. I know Molnar keeps a close eye on the foundry that produces their raw forgings; SCAT used to. Since their change of ownership I can’t ascertain as to whether they (SCAT)do or not. I remember seeing the first Chinese SBC and BBC forgings when I worked for JET. Compared to the OE forgings( and the hydrogen embrittlement problems GM had while using the TuftRiding process) the Chinese forgings were junk, IMO. When you are grinding new cranks .030 under to correct taper, out of round and out of stroke conditions are you really getting a bargain.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

What are you planning on doing with the thrust ? Shim kit, spray weld ?
I bought a crank years ago online that the seller said was forged. It was a 3.25 crank with 4.25 stoke. Originally came from Crankshaft Specialist so I had it sent straight to them from the seller and had back to them and ground to 3" mains and thrust welded, double knife edged and gun drilled down to 65lbs.
It has square cheeks and I did not get corkscrews with a 1/8" bit around flexplate area.
So I assume its cast.
But it did get the thrust welded and I never got a straight answer from CS. If they tried to weld it like a forging and it was cast there is going to be a problem. But crank looks perfect. The counterweights a VERY shiny where profiled, they said it looks like a billet.
Still I assume its cast.
Good luck with your build.

Thanks. Just a little 3” main 421, with a projected 500-525hp/ 550 ft/lbs torque to push a ‘64 Catalina two door sedan down the highway. I going for reliability over maximum output. I want an engine I can walk out to the garage, start the engine and drive to a car show 150 miles from home without having to be concerned with overheating, sluggish performance and abysmal fuel economy. I don’t want to have to re-ring it every 5,000 miles or set the valves every month. When I was much younger I didn’t mind doing this but I turned 61 this year; spending countless hours bent over a fender isn’t my idea of “fun” anymore.

[steve25]

My post # 28 was questioning how this string has gone from discussing cast cranks to forged cranks.lol!

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by steve25

My post # 28 was questioning how this string has gone from discussing cast cranks to forged cranks.lol!

Steve, the source of both is China. I stated my first hand experience with Chinese forged cranks; I also tell you my first hand experience with Chinese cast cranks. It mirrors my experience with Chinese forged cranks; out of round, too much taper and grossly out of stroke( more than .040).

[steve25]

I am glad that details either way are being presented here, so don’t get me wrong.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Steve, the source of both is China. I stated my first hand experience with Chinese forged cranks; I also tell you my first hand experience with Chinese cast cranks. It mirrors my experience with Chinese forged cranks; out of round, too much taper and grossly out of stroke( more than .040).

And also includes a fair amount of cast/forged in China, "finished" in USA junk.

The whole point of using cheap Communist castings/cheap Communist forgings is to improve profit margins. Therefore, the finishing operations there--or here--are potentially done with low-wage FNGs on worn-out machines, running too-high feed rates and then over-polishing the journal resulting in hourglassing the journals. All of this ALSO improves profit margins until folks figure out that they have to correct all the errors ground-into the final product you're providing.

But, hey, then you can just change the name of your company and take out a bunch of ads with a new logo, color photos, and snazzy text.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

And also includes a fair amount of cast/forged in China, "finished" in USA junk.

The whole point of using cheap Communist castings/cheap Communist forgings is to improve profit margins. Therefore, the finishing operations there--or here--are potentially done with low-wage FNGs on worn-out machines, running too-high feed rates and then over-polishing the journal resulting in hourglassing the journals. All of this ALSO improves profit margins until folks figure out that they have to correct all the errors ground-into the final product you're providing.

But, hey, then you can just change the name of your company and take out a bunch of ads with a new logo, color photos, and snazzy text.

A good quote from Joe Mondello I learned in one of his classes: "Carbides and cutting tools are for shaping", Stones are for final sizing, cloth backed abrasive is for polishing". If your trying to used a crank polisher to size a journal, your doing it wrong. Your point is spot on.

[78w72]

My butler provided 4.250 eagle forged crank was very nice, had a local machine shop check it out before the build & said it was spot on in specs & balance. maybe butler does some extra checking & balancing but I dont see any problems with a eagle forged crank nor have I heard of any.
But as with most things out there, there are probably a small handful if issues that cant be confirmed were due to the crank itself or other problems with the build or use.

[Gach]

Originally Posted by 78w72

My butler provided 4.250 eagle forged crank was very nice, had a local machine shop check it out before the build & said it was spot on in specs & balance. maybe butler does some extra checking & balancing but I dont see any problems with a eagle forged crank nor have I heard of any.
But as with most things out there, there are probably a small handful if issues that cant be confirmed were due to the crank itself or other problems with the build or use.

Initially when Eagle cranks became available, they had a lot of issues. Trust me on that, I dealt with a few of them. That gave them a bad reputation left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths. So it’s going to take a long while to rebuild a reputation.