[camerjeff]

Other than the ugly wheels that is a steal at that price, curious what it will sell for.

[1969400HO]

"There doesn't seem to be a lot wrong with the body'..
The blue 68 looks like the engine was dropped on the front radiator support area, its all wrinkled up.
The thing has major structural issues up front.

[MarkS57]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Great Story Mark
That interior with any shade of Blue Exterior would be a knock-out.
Would be great if you had another one to replace it.

I was brought home as a newborn infant in my G'moms new 64 Bonneville Vert (burgandy/black/black), in Nov 1963.
It stayed in the family for a while but i never got attached to it.
A super-duper tri-tone leather interior would have made a difference, i think.

Thanks, BTW, the grills shown are from a Grand Prix. Original Bonneville grills aren't hard to get though.

[71GP76TA]

Originally Posted by thews

68 Firebird in Washington at $7.8K NR.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/26543218756...AAAOSwT4hhqGEF

Judging by the drivers seat... looks more like a cared for 160,000 miles.

[thews]

Here's an interesting car with a reserve. 1969 GTO Judge at $9500 reserve not met in Southern California. You don't see cars this original very often.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12503198756...EAAOSw1WNhqWM0

[thews]

The 69 Judge is off the reserve at $29K. Which one offers the most bang for buck?

69 Judge in unrestored condition at $29K NR.


69 Judge in Florida at $111K. Looks like a Canadian Judge frame off.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/30424999915...UAAOSw4T5hprNl


69 Judge in Minnesota at $100K.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/33423680478...gAAOSwZU1gsTD4


69 Judge tribute in Texas at $60K BIN OBO
https://www.ebay.com/itm/16520723112...YAAOSwZaJhpzyh


69 GTO convertible red/red with a Judge wing and a 455 at $78K in Florida.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/16520110445...8AAOSwxOthV9ua

[thews]

69 Dumpster fire GTO Judge at $5.5K NR in NY. Unless you plan on doing a complete body swap, I think this car is too far gone. No engine/trans. Also, if I bought this car I would ask for pics of the VIN data plate.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/22473532689...wAAOSw1~Bhs-zl

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Its an early Automatic "Pattern Judge"
Don't see very many of the pattern cars in the Automatic flavor.

[thews]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Its an early Automatic "Pattern Judge"
Don't see very many of the pattern cars in the Automatic flavor.

Interesting.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...fter-30-years/

Pattern, Alan learned, refers to the first 2,000 GTOs with the Judge option in 1969. There were a few "deviations," but in his words were "pretty much all Carousel Red, black interior, four-speed, hood tachometer, 3.55 Safe-T-Track, that's it, have a nice day. They were all the same."

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

They barely got any of their facts correct about the Pattern Judges.
But they got the orange part right.
Could be Parchment or Black
Could be 3spd, 4spd, or Auto

Autos didn't have Hood Tachs in their option group.
AC was also a variable.

Vast majority were 4spd cars

Order #s with 000xx , with Jan/early Feb build dates , are key identifiers.

[thews]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

They barely got any of their facts correct about the Pattern Judges.
But they got the orange part right.
Could be Parchment or Black
Could be 3spd, 4spd, or Auto

Autos didn't have Hood Tachs in their option group.
AC was also a variable.

Vast majority were 4spd cars

Order #s with 000xx , with Jan/early Feb build dates , are key identifiers.

I've never heard of a Pattern Judge before this. I would assume they'd be less valuable than a non-Pattern Judge just because they made 2000 of them... unless that number is wrong and they made less.

[thews]

68 Firebird in Florida at $7500 NR. Note the Rally II's have the inside painted black instead of silver... I like the stock look better.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25527008080...gAAOSwLTVhsn86

[thews]

Found this on the Pattern Judges. Seems the first 1000 were all the same, then the next 1000 could be had with different options, but it had to be Carousel Red.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...99#post6008799

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Calling them all the same can be misleading to casual readers.
There was a Manual Pattern option group, that could be 3spd or 4spd.
Those could also be Black or Parchment interior
Those could also be AC equipped - though only 1 or 2 have been discovered.
So those factors really over-ride calling them all the same.
But their general option package and exterior color were all the same.

Then you have the Automatic Patterns - which didn't have Hood Tachs in their option group.
Black or Parch
AC / Non-AC variable ,,, fair number of Auto with AC documented.

A lot of info you will find is either outdated or misrepresented - or taken in the wrong context.
Would take a layman 100's of hours scouring the various investigative threads on here concerning Pattern Judges to get the full picture.
A google will lead astray to transposed quips.
We solely used documented cars and their documents to compile actual facts.

Actual full production numbers are unknown on Pattern Cars, DeLorean suggested 2000, another PMD source suggests 1000. So it is unclear.

Patterns were produced approx 1B through 2B build dates.
A couple 2C Patterns have been documented also.
2C and later Judges could be a-la-carte ,,, but still Orange exterior.
Earliest non-Orange is around 3B .
Those are the breaking points, no production totals can be confirmed at any point involving Patterns.
Their originating order numbers will be 000xx or 00xxx

However we, me, us, many people had-have always referred to them as the First 2000 , due to a later quote from John DeLorean in the 80's.

That is the 15 year compiled research facts in a nutshell , fully revised and up to date as of this very moment. There are more associated details, but that nutshell will put readers way ahead of most any other singular reading they will find anywhere.

Hope that helps anyone who has interest in 69 Judges

[johnta1]

Early thread on the '2000' Pattern Judges:

2000 Pattern Judges

Some info mixed in a thread:

Early Judges

Quite a few others out there as BVZ said.

And a Pontiac document:
(from Pontiac - Oakland Museum)

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

As far as Orange 69 Judge RamAir 3 cars , the Patterns are generally the most desirable.
Great option content , and First Fruit stature.
A higher content later built car could be more desirable to some, but most later builds had lesser content than Pattern.

Pinning a production number on them is risky of non-ending debate with personalities of that type.
Build dates and order numbers are the safe-bet breaking points to use.

I quit calling them the First 2000 when we discovered and documented the actual existence of the Pattern Builds. It does signify them as First Fruit type cars that DeLorean was implying to.
The actual number, I no longer care about.
Early Pattern Judges are unique regardless of 1000 or 3456

[Gary H]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Early thread on the '2000' Pattern Judges:

2000 Pattern Judges

Some info mixed in a thread:

Early Judges

Quite a few others out there as BVZ said.

And a Pontiac document:
(from Pontiac - Oakland Museum)

In the press release it was mentioned that the Ram Air engine availability in April was down because of a durability issue that had to be addressed. I wonder what that was? The only change in mid-year that I can think of was a change from the 744 cam to the 068 cam on automatic equipped cars. I thought that was due more to poor idle and driveability issues than durability.

[keith k]

Great info on the Pattern Judges - thx, guys!

[thews]

Dumpster fire 78 Trans Am in Colorado at NR $420. Rusted , but the red interior doesn't look too bad and there's an engine in it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38459735330...sAAOSwP-tht61Q

[thews]

67 GTO Convertible NR at $19.7K.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/32493708914...gAAOSwzKNhtkub

Engine he has for sale outside of the auction, but could easily be a negotation chip.