[61-63]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

When it comes to using Ford rockers, there are times when they work, and times when they don't.

When I say longer valves, I'm not talking longer than the short valves in 6X heads. I mean longer compared to what came in a particular head from the factory. You need to keep in mind that when Pontiac uses a non adjustable valve train, the valve tips need to be at a certain height, regardless of head used, to be able to use the same pushrod in any engine[keeping in mind that 66 and older engines, and some 67 engines used shorter pushrods than the later 68 and up engines, including some 67 engines]. The valve length from the factory was determined by the depth of the combustion chamber. The deeper the chamber, the shorter the valve. When you install a longer valve than what came in a particular head, the valve tip becomes closer to the rocker stud than it was when stock valves were used. Now if you use a Pontiac rocker arm, the rollout pattern will be farther out on the stem tip, closer to the exhaust side. By using a SB Ford rocker in these applications, you can get the rollout pattern closer to center of the valve tip, where it should be. I find that when you increase the valve length .100" or more, the SB Ford rocker becomes a viable candidate. It's not a good choice for stock length valves. The 468 this thread was created for has valves that are .185" longer than the stock 670 valves, so the Ford rocker worked out very well here. I also find they work well in 389/421 heads when a .100" longer valve is used to get the spring installed height longer.

Thank you great information.

[sjdiesel]

Update:
Sorry for the delay. I got the car back on the road last November. Here is a video right after the first drive. It wasn’t overheating, I was washing some spilled coolant off the front. Since this video, I have finished all the interior, got the AC working and had Harry at HK Motorsports dyno tune the car.
The engine runs awesome! I have about 2k miles on it so far. Total tire-fryer!

BTW this video is with pypes Race pro mufflers. I have since replaced them with large 17749 dynomax super turbos to quiet things down some.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vJwEEgyL7UuuN3NRA

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Got to dyno it today with the manifolds on with a 2.5" pipe connected to them.

RPM____Torque____H.P. Difference
1600____415______126 -11/3
1700____419______136 -18/5
1800____416______143 -28/9
1900____418______151 -27/10
2000____436______166 -20/8
2100____439______176 -29/11
2200____460______193 -19/8
2300____471______206 -17/8
2400____484______221 -12/5
2500____498______237 -14/11
2600____501______248 *****
2700____515______265 -11/4
2800____523______279 -13/7
2900____534______295 -8/5
3000____543______310 -9/10
3100____552______326 *****
3200____562______342 +2/5
3300____568______357 +2/1
3400____572______370 +2/2
3500____576______384 +6/4
3600____580______398 +7/5
3700____575______405 +2/1
3800____570______413 -5/3
3900____570______423 -1/1
4000____568______432 -1/2
4100____571______446 -2/1
4200____566______452 -1/1
4300____555______454 -2/2
4400____553______463 -3/3
4500____551______472 -0/1
4600____548______480 +1/1
4700____545______488 0/0
4800____538______492 -2/2
4900____534______498 -0/1
5000____529______504 -1/0
5100____524______509 +1/2
5200____518______513 +2/2
5300____513______518 +1/1
5400____506______520 -2/2
5500____497______521 -2/1
5600____487______520 -1/0
5700____476______516 +4/3
5800____461______510 -5/4
5900____425______477 -31/35
6000____407______465 -12/5

Thanks for the update.
Sweet deal sorting it out with a dyno tune.

Looks like the numbers dropped by about 30% going through the driveline and complete exhaust.
HK Dyno might be on the stingy side.

Got any pictures of the car you can share ?
My internet is video challenged.

Swapped from the 3.55 to the 3.08 gears yet ?

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Thanks for the update.
Sweet deal sorting it out with a dyno tune.

Looks like the numbers dropped by about 30% going through the driveline and complete exhaust.
HK Dyno might be on the stingy side.

Got any pictures of the car you can share ?
My internet is video challenged.

Swapped from the 3.55 to the 3.08 gears yet ?

What is typical?

[sjdiesel]

Honestly I don’t have any good pictures of the car.... here are a few random ones.

I swapped out the 3.55’s for 3.23’s. But I really want OD so that is next on the list.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

What is typical?

I was thinking 20% +/- , could be wrong on that.
30'ish % just seemed high to me

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by sjdiesel

Honestly I don’t have any good pictures of the car.... here are a few random ones.

I swapped out the 3.55’s for 3.23’s. But I really want OD so that is next on the list.

Great looking 67 you built !
I have a 67 that would like to eventually do about the same kind of engine you did with keeping the 670 Heads Intake Qjet with Manifolds on pump gas.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by sjdiesel

Update:
Sorry for the delay. I got the car back on the road last November. Here is a video right after the first drive. It wasn’t overheating, I was washing some spilled coolant off the front. Since this video, I have finished all the interior, got the AC working and had Harry at HK Motorsports dyno tune the car.
The engine runs awesome! I have about 2k miles on it so far. Total tire-fryer!

BTW this video is with pypes Race pro mufflers. I have since replaced them with large 17749 dynomax super turbos to quiet things down some.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vJwEEgyL7UuuN3NRA

Very nice. That combo is nearly identical to the 455 I built that Paul did all the machine work on. Same camshaft, nearly same head flow etc....Paul has that combo pretty well figured out, makes a nice street engine.

What torque converter are you running?

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

When it comes to using Ford rockers, there are times when they work, and times when they don't.

When I say longer valves, I'm not talking longer than the short valves in 6X heads. I mean longer compared to what came in a particular head from the factory. You need to keep in mind that when Pontiac uses a non adjustable valve train, the valve tips need to be at a certain height, regardless of head used, to be able to use the same pushrod in any engine[keeping in mind that 66 and older engines, and some 67 engines used shorter pushrods than the later 68 and up engines, including some 67 engines]. The valve length from the factory was determined by the depth of the combustion chamber. The deeper the chamber, the shorter the valve. When you install a longer valve than what came in a particular head, the valve tip becomes closer to the rocker stud than it was when stock valves were used. Now if you use a Pontiac rocker arm, the rollout pattern will be farther out on the stem tip, closer to the exhaust side. By using a SB Ford rocker in these applications, you can get the rollout pattern closer to center of the valve tip, where it should be. I find that when you increase the valve length .100" or more, the SB Ford rocker becomes a viable candidate. It's not a good choice for stock length valves. The 468 this thread was created for has valves that are .185" longer than the stock 670 valves, so the Ford rocker worked out very well here. I also find they work well in 389/421 heads when a .100" longer valve is used to get the spring installed height longer.

Paul,
Have you ever measured what the pivot length is for each? In other words what the difference in pivot length is.

Stan

[sjdiesel]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Very nice. That combo is nearly identical to the 455 I built that Paul did all the machine work on. Same camshaft, nearly same head flow etc....Paul has that combo pretty well figured out, makes a nice street engine.

What torque converter are you running?

I just put that together the other day. I am only getting 11” of vacuum out of mine and I think you mentioned you were getting around 14”? Wonder why?

I’m running an 11” 2800 stall converter from Mikes transmission. I was in a bind because that was right at the time continental went out of business. When I swap to a 700r-4 I think I will run one of the converters from Cliff. Seems people really like them.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by sjdiesel

I just put that together the other day. I am only getting 11” of vacuum out of mine and I think you mentioned you were getting around 14”? Wonder why?

I’m running an 11” 2800 stall converter from Mikes transmission. I was in a bind because that was right at the time continental went out of business. When I swap to a 700r-4 I think I will run one of the converters from Cliff. Seems people really like them.

Are you at sea level?

I'm getting right at 12 inches vacuum at 5,000 feet, which would be 14-15 at sea level. But I installed the camshaft at 106.25 ICL and I think Paul set yours at 107. Might be other minor differences as well?

Yep those converters through Cliff work excellent. They come from TSP and I dealt with Cliff on 2 of them now. One he did for this 455, same combo you're running, and another he did for my fathers car. Extremely happy with both of them so far.

[MidnightAuto]

Well we have one test where 43 hp was added with headers and another with close to zero added. Clear as mud. But I guess it probably has-to do with more overlap in the cam from what I have surmised from info shared…

[Pontiac Derek]

Beautiful job Paul I love it. I hope you’re doing well.! I built an almost identical motor with Dave’s CNC ported 670 heads 9.5:1, 459cid 1967 iron intake just port matched with Dave’s old faithful camshaft 236-244 .570in .574ex 112lsa 110ilc iirc it was at 517hp 573tq but I was having problems with the Q-jet we had, total beast on the street! Great job!

[nmoreilly]

Great build and thread