[pontiac_banshee]

Cant even let you know how much I let it go for. Market wasnt what it was today and it makes me ill when I talk about it My buddys sold their 69 Camaro's and 69 Chevelles about the same time and we all regret it now. Another friends older brother still has his Yenko in a pole barn just sitting.

I am not looking to get it back as I am building a 1968 Firebird. I never owned the pony car of the Pontiac Lineup so this is where I am headed. I am building it just like I did back in 1974 and taht is MY WAY. No worries about numbers matching or anything like that. It does have a 1968 428 4-bolt with a 68 turbo 400 but I am not worried about concourse just kick ass. Vintage parts are there like before. Took me 5 years to find a NOS Mallory Rev-Pol switch and a few other things that was on my original 1968 GTO. I sold that for $600 in 1979 or so.

Just wanted to know if it lived or died as it is a major part of my history.

It was in Pontiac magazine as "readers car" and almost made it on cover of Car Craft (another painfull story) and all I can says is DAMN reflective strips. The worst was within 1 month of selling, both Pontiac magazine and Car Craft both sent me letter with a request to do a feature on it. All the instructions on what type of film media they needed and I was so pissed.

Remember this was 1980 and the desire for Muscle cars was not what it is now. I sold a shell of a Judge (hit in side) for $250 in 1978 so you can see that things changed years later.

[notime]

Do a search for the Ray Faro car on here and you will find a picture of the other hood.

[pontiac_banshee]

Any one seen some closeups of the car. Looks like the restoration had a stock hood. Contacted the current owner to see if he has some pics. notime, did you find a better picture of car closeup? I wish I could find out more about why the hood was presented to Pontiac! I dont think they would have spent that kind of money to build 1 or 2 of these hoods unless Pontiac would have contacted them. I guess unless we get lucky and someone out there knows more of the history we may never know. I contacted The Judges Chamber / Robert J. McKenzie but never heard back. For some reason I am thinking I bought this from him back in the late 70's. Will try him again.

[pontiac_banshee]

After receiving an email from another gentleman with a Judge who made a comment on the hood I did a bit more thinking on that subject. I also talked to the owner of the other hood that was run on a “Pontiac Supported or backed” GTO in 69 and 70. So it brought back what Jim Wangers Said --- “this was an aftermarket presentation made to Pontiac in 1968.”

What I am trying to find is why this presentation was made. What would be happening in the GTO’s life that might have generated this??? THE JUDGE! The quality of these hood was far superior to anything you can buy even today. They were from AA Fiberglass and had to cost them thousands to produce back then. Especially if Pontiac would have accepted them there would need to be molds etc that were ready to go.

Mr. Wangers wasn’t able to elaborate on why the hoods were “presented”. I wouldn’t think a company would not spend LOTS of money building a hood like this if it was just for a presentation. Someone at Pontiac had to be in the “KNOW” about them even before work started!

My speculation was Pontiac asked them to build a hood for either the 69 or 70 Judge. Why??? I can think of no other reason these would have been built. Part of that comes from the fact that the 69 TransAm ended up with a completely different hood also.

From other tidbits I came across it wasn’t uncommon for GM to approach large companies to produce items as tests for cars and in 1968 the Judge was being worked on. I wouldn’t thing AA would have just thought “maybe we should spend a couple of thousand dollars and build a hood for the GTO an take it to them”. That just doesn’t make sense unless they had a extremely good idea the hood would be accepted for some reason. Again this wasn’t just a shell of a hood it was a high quality build. I have included two pictures I have that show some of the hood underside. The hood hinge mounts were built into the hood to. In this case these hoods were nicer than the stuff put on current and old Corvettes. Even the underside was gel coated and had all the framing molded in. Common sense would say Pontiac requested them and if they did why????

[notime]

Look for "henley" on this board and ask him if he would send you a photo of the hood, its hanging in his garage, its orange and in perfect condition as the car had 55 miles on it when removed in 07 i think. Car now has a little over 100 miles on it!

[pontiac_banshee]

I have spoken to the person who has the 2nd hood. It seems it got dropped and cracked so feel bad for him. The more I dig up on this hood the more the value goes up.

[firetruker1]

I was looking at the pics of the tunnel ram and I sold mine to a guy in Superior in about 79 and that looks like mine! I raced my Black 69 with the Ram Air IV with that on it.

[pontiac_banshee]

That was me.
I lived about 12 miles out of superior until 1975 or so and then moved to Superior and lived there until 1993 and I moved here to Appleton Area. Sold the car around 1983. It was the worst thing I ever did (car related that is).

The guy that bought the car from me lived in Minneapolis and some shop conned him out of the tunnel ram and carbs as the told him it was to much carb for the engine. THe engine was a 60 over 455HO from a 71 TA with forged pistons. It was ballanced and ran a pretty strong cam along with hooker comp headers. THe guy traded him even up for a cast iron intake and holley. At least that is what the guy told me. He was mad at me for putting such a poor setup on the car and selling it to him.

[firetruker1]

You must have bought the tunnel ram from the guy I sold it to as I saw him about a year ago. The tunnel ram was built by a guy in Milwaukee. I ran it on my raiv with 660 holleys but I sold them separatley. My 69 Judge(which I still have) ran 11.50s with that setup. I bought back my ram air iv that i sold at the same time as the tunnel ram after 25 years to restore my car.

[pontiac_banshee]

I am not sure how I even found it back then as there was the internet or CL or anything like that. Maybe it was the "Manneys Shopper" as I think that was the only free adds out there. Unless you knew Dennis VanAlstien from his Speedshop or Apollo dragway days. I know where the hood for my car is and the air cleaners but that is all I have found so far. I had to cut the hood fpr what turned out to be a very rare piece for the tunnel ram. The 455 ran great with it. Ran a MSD with mechanical tach unilite distributor and it never missed a beat. I think I paid $100 or less for the intake. I think the guy I bought it from had the carbs on it all ready.

[firetruker1]

I do know Dennis very well and I was also in TPDRA with him during the Apollo days. I can,t remember the name of the guy i sold the intake to but he did work at Kapus Erickson in Superior. He alos knew dennis so that is probably where Dennis may have gotten involved. I think Dennis is the one that sent him to me in the first place. I had a set of Bill Miller aluminum rods for a Pontiac that he also bought. I also knowq GTO John that has the hood very wwell. I remember your car from years ago but I do not recall meeting you. I raced in Brainerd and at Northstar (till it closed) a lot from 1977 to 1989.

[pontiac_banshee]

He was in our car club Jeff Quinoniss (not sure of spelling). Our club was Twin Ports Street Machines and merged with MSMA. My buddies all had Chevy. One a blue 69 Camaro SS another a 69 Chevelle SS, a 74 Z28 and his brother you may remember from Apollo had a Green 69 Yanko Camaro. I raced at Apollo a couple of time and still have one of my time slips but that was a fairly stock 68 GTO. Dennis said my GTO had the worst wheel hop he had ever seen He said the trunk bowed so much he could have seen inside. Even with the wheel hop I ran a hundreth faster than my friend with his 69 Camaro and faster than my other friends Chevelle SS. I ran into Dennis this summer when I was up at Proctor car show. Sad to see his health was so bad. Still was car crazy though. Didnt make it to the Apollo reiunion as it was such bad weather.

[pontiac_banshee]

I am lucky down here in Appleton as we have a local drag strip that gets lots of cars. WIR and they alos have a roundy round track on the same property. Not many Pontiacs dragging though. Camaros coming out of your butt and lots of chevy dragsters. One Pontiac Dragster that runs but not sure of his success rate. It is a IHRA track and has a number of special events with jet cars, wheel standers and a group from CHicago area "Outlaws". BIkes, snowmobiles and even kids dragsters run every sat and they run a HS drag night on Fridays. They also run a big Harley event every year. Only 5 miles away so I am lucky.
THis forum has been excellent and all the people have been helpfull.

[firetruker1]

I have heard the 69 Yenco is still in a garage (1 owner) and will probably never be sold and probably never restored. You are right it is Jeff that i sold it to.

[pontiac_banshee]

Actually a pole barn in Poplar WI and the last I heard his brothers 69 pace car Camaro is sitting in the same building to. His brother Ed was one of my very good friends and part of our small group with his 74 Z28 and at one point the Yenko was going to be handed down to a son or other young member of family. It gets more valuable every day. I think he still has the entire original engine and everything. It wasn’t in that bad of shape when he put it away. They have a trucking company and not hurting for money.
We used to cruise Superior and west Duluth allot. Used to race 5 to 15 times a night back in the day. I wasn’t around when they went a bit wilder with the illegal track in west Duluth. Jeff Q and I used to be around each other allot as we were a couple of Pontiac guys in a Field full of Chevy A$$e$.

I think I may have seen you car at Apollo. Do you remember Deany? I saw him this summer at the Proctor Event. For others he was an autistic guy who used to love Plexiglas and the Lived and breathed Fast CARS. He had the Chilton manuals memorized and used to LOVE when you revved up the car for him. I remember the management at the Drag Strip chastising him for getting so close to the cars exhaust. I was amazed at his car knowledge. Just another interesting person who added his own to the car craze back then. Those were the days when cruising of was far more than driving around in your parents Volvo. I have fond memories of racing and of course the girls. I cant count the number if cheek marks on my rear windows from cuties mooning the car next to us. Ahhhhh, those were the days.

Due to some responses I got about my car I am going to put some information and pictures in the Judge section. I feel honored to have been in the Muscle car era even though it was close to the end. For all you the young guys that are in hear now just imagine how cool it was to be cruising with original Z28's, Shelby Cobras, Hemi Roadrunners etc etc etc. I was beyone cool and I will love it for ever. Soon as I get my Firebird done I have to cruise with Honda Civics that sound like a bee in a beer can!!! I give myself 1 week before I get pulled over.
KEEP THE ENGINE REVED AND THE STEREO BLASTING!!!!!!!!!!!

[pontiac_banshee]

I think I may have found the car. It is only 30 miles away. I am in the process to talking to the owner of it now. It is in a car museum and the value on the car says $125,000

1.) I found out that the car had been in a front end accident. Which make sense because the hideaways are gone.
2.) This car looks like it got a concourse rebuild but there is ONE major flaw that points to it being my old car.

If you look at my pictures you will see that I didn't care about the TRUE look of the Judge. It was my late 70's muscle car so it had my flavor to it. One thing I did was add the 70's Firebird door mirrors. When I first saw this concourse restoration it stopped me in my tracks DEAD. Here is a car that cost thousands to restore and it has the same mirrors on it mine did. Someone didn't know that the mirrors were not correct so they left them on. The car is roped off and the owner is not there so I have to contact him to take a look. It also has the 12 bolt rear end in it and from what I know you couldn't buy the 12 bolt in 69.

So my search could be over and only a few miles away at a Harley dealer's car museum.

[GTO JOHN]

Congrats on the find!!

They are claiming it is a RAIV 4-spd Judge which is the reason the value is so high. What engine was in the car when you got it? I know of a guy who has a complete WW out of a 69 RAIV Judge sold new in Eveleth, MN. Maybe same car?

[pontiac_banshee]

A ram air III was in it when I bought it
I put the 455HO in it.

The reason it seems so odd is that it obviously had been redone to concourse condition. So why the 70's mirrors? Either they were on there and the person didnt know or they added them and drove the price down? I would think they were on there and the person didnt know that did the restore.


I can find ou by looking at the frame to see a few things.

[Uncle Judge]

Originally Posted by pontiac_banshee

So my search could be over and only a few miles away at a Harley dealer's car museum.

Does this dealership also have a bunch of animals? Some kind of a petting zoo or something? If so, I spoke to him years back about the car. He had it for sale for a while. I am pretty sure that he bought it from Classic Auto in Milwaukee. He was quite candid and he told me that it needed quite a bit of ironing out. He may have kept it and done just that to it? Overlooked the mirrors though I guess.

[pontiac_banshee]

Yes that is the place.
I was told by worker that it had been in a front end accident.

Yes my curiosity right now is the mirrors and the fact that it looks like a 12 bolt is still in the car. My car was in the Twin Citys and sold to someone in Milwaukee area and had been seen at drag strip near Milw years back. Since the shop didn't know about the mirrors I am thinking they saw the round port motor and thought RA IV not 455 HO. If they missed the mirrors anything is possible.

If I can get under the car I will no for sure as it had lots of things that the factory car did not. Traction bars driveshaft loop things where they were either be holes or welded where they once were.

Its just been a fun mystery. Finding the old hood and then finding the significance of it was pretty darn cool. Just being able to get iformation from Jim Wangers about it was so cool. How it got to the point where I found it back in the days with no internet is crazy.