[b-man]

Years back I spoke with Kris about a new converter for my soon-to-be 400-powered '64 Tempest, running a 2.93 rear gear.

He built and sold me a 10" unit. Never got the chance to use it, I sold the 400 engine and the 10" converter a little later on because my direction changed on the car.

At the time I was ordering the converter I was wavering between the 10" and a 13" unit, but I opted for the 10" to try to get better performance. I asked Kris about the fuel efficiency difference between the two and he said the 10" would sacrifice about 1 MPG compared to the 13" unit.

On a side note, back when H-O Racing was still in business they had some converters in their catalog. If I'm not mistaken they were sourced from Continental, so one of the top Pontiac gurus at the time knew they were a good converter choice for a Pontiac application.

[MD79TA]

Here are pics of the stock converter.

[Vol]

Very interested in this thread as I have been looking for a converter myself for a similar application. I have looked at the off the shelf units by TCI, B&M and Hughes with a 2500-2800 stall for just street use. But from what I can gather there is a strong sway toward Continental. For the average driver, weekend cruiser are there great off the shelf units from the likes listed above?

[Steve C.]

"For the average driver, weekend cruiser are there great off the shelf units from the likes listed above?"

Maybe.

Not unique to Hughes, but below is some tech info presented by them. And noted right off the bat, "All stall speed ratios are approximate and will vary, based on the torque of the engine."

We know the Torque curve of your Pontiac will be different than a torque curve from a Small Block Chevy. No 'off the shelf' unit is going to work best for both. Your call to the converter tech guy with specific info about your entire combination is important and should direct his suggestions. Again, most don't have one available but a actual engine dyno sheet on your engine really helps a company build a custom converter for your specific needs.

Tech info.....

Stall speed is the point where a converter has reached it's maximum fluid flow or it has hydraulically locked up because torque multiplication has reached it's highest point.

All stall speed ratios are approximate and will vary, based on the torque of the engine. Small and Big Block combinations will vary 300 to 500 R.P.M.'s Stall speed is the amount of engine R.P.M. that can be attained at full throttle with the brakes locked and the transmission in gear before the drive wheels turn. It is very important to determine that if your vehicle drive wheels turn before the desired stall is reached, you must either "flash" the converter to attain higher stall or install a brake proportioning valve that directs more fluid to the drive wheel brakes to better hold the vehicle. In either case, attainable stall ratio will not exceed 3500 R.P.M., due to the vehicle braking system, which is even worse with disc brake equipped cars.

Performance engines are modified to produce more horsepower and torque and it is essential to know what the peak torque or your engine is and to match the stall speed ratio of the torque converter with the engines power curve. This match will give the optimum performance or "launch" of the vehicle. There are no closer-tied components in any vehicle than the engines' camshaft and the torque converter. Attention to this detail is of utmost importance to your vehicle's optimum performance.


.


.

[Cliff R]

All of the larger 11-13" "generic" units from those folks are fine. They are not as "tight" anyplace as the Continental units designed to do the same thing, but for most folks they will do a good job of getting power to the ground for these set-ups.

Folks rant and rave about the Hugh's BOP unit, and I got a chance to try one a few years ago as we did a trans build and converter swap in our shop. We "flogged" the Hugh's unit pretty good, testing it in all catagories. It was fine, didn't "flash" too high when hit with full power, relatively well coupled above and below the stall speed, wouldn't go past about 2200rpms on the brakes, etc.

As good as it worked, my much smaller 3500rpm 10" unit is actually "tighter" everyplace, but will "flash" to 3500rpm's on full throttle starts. On the brakes you can't get past 1900rpm's without spinning the tires, and coupled nearly as tight as a stock converter for "normal" driving, and locked nearly solid above the stall speed.

We rebuilt the trans and replaced the Hughs BOP unit with a custom built 10" unit from Continental, and the results/improvements were amazing. The exact same vehicle launched much harder at the track, transferred more power on the run, and drove more like it had a stock converter in it on the street.

Bottom line here, if you want the very best in every catagory, then of course open the wallet up a little more and step up to a custom unit, as you really do get what you pay for when it comes to this topic.......Cliff

[Vol]

Steve and Cliff thanks for the input—now and throughout this post. I respect what you bring to this forum. I am looking into all the options and weighing all the choices and the wallet is just one of them

[PAUL K]

The torque converters I bought from H-O Racing were manufactured by Art Carr.

[71 T/A]

B&M Holeshot 2400 Nitrous (anti-ballooning plates) 10" converter. Nobody has mentioned this off the shelf converter. I know several people using it and I use one in my 72 Formula with 455, ported 260 stock 7K3 heads and Stump Puller. Everyone likes it. In fact, I remember Pontiac Dude stating on this site that he liked the converter.

This converter offers around 2500 stall in a 10" unit, which nobody on the market offers. It is also recommended in the GM Catalog for their 502 big block motor, an engine with torque characteristics similar though not exact, of course to a Pontiac 455. I asked Continental to make me a 10" 2,500-2,600 converter and they sent me a POS that wouldn't stall much, if at all above stock and was clearly outperformed by the B&M unit. A visit to a local racer and tech confirmed that the Continental was a POS. I'm not saying that Continental converters aren't good units but for a street car, you do have other options.

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by 71 T/A

B&M Holeshot 2400 Nitrous (anti-ballooning plates) 10" converter. Nobody has mentioned this off the shelf converter. I know several people using it and I use one in my 72 Formula with 455, ported 260 stock 7K3 heads and Stump Puller. Everyone likes it. In fact, I remember Pontiac Dude stating on this site that he liked the converter.

This converter offers around 2500 stall in a 10" unit, which nobody on the market offers. It is also recommended in the GM Catalog for their 502 big block motor, an engine with torque characteristics similar though not exact, of course to a Pontiac 455. I asked Continental to make me a 10" 2,500-2,600 converter and they sent me a POS that wouldn't stall much, if at all above stock and was clearly outperformed by the B&M unit. A visit to a local racer and tech confirmed that the Continental was a POS. I'm not saying that Continental converters aren't good units but for a street car, you do have other options.

What does "POS" stand for?

[74Grandville]

Piece of pooh

[Cliff R]

I've been selling them for almost 15 years and never even heard of a 2600rpm 10" unit? I've only spec'd out a couple of 10" units that were "tightened up" more than the 3200rpm unit, one customer says his flashes to about 2800rpms and he's ran high 11's with it.

I can see how going tighter than the 3200rpm unit on the 10" housing as you are likely to end up with less than desirable results. The cores they use have much larger fins than the metric cores other companies use for 10" converters, so are super-efficient. Trying to tighten them up too much is likely to result in poor torque multiplication, since the 3200 unit is already super-efficient yet flashes well past 3000rpm's when hit with big power.

When I spec them out here, I would go to the 13" unit for folks that wanted under 3000rpm stall speed, and that converter was a "home-run" everyplace, but they are NLA.

We sell several versions of the 10" that flash higher than 3200rpm's, and they all work fine. The 4200rpms version we call the "poor mans race converter", quite a few folks run them well into the 10's in strong running street/strip cars. We have two cars that we drive/race out of our shop here that use the 4200rpms converter, and they are nearly as "tight" for "normal" driving as the 3200rpm version, which simply amazes me when I drive or race these cars......Cliff

[400 Lemans]

Right on your website it says, ''We have been selling a lot of the 10in units, available from 2600 to 4200 stall speeds''.

[Steve C.]

Continental claims each converter is custom-made to the buyer’s application. I don't see 'shelf' converters mentioned.

Their torque converter’s stall speed is largely determined by the shape of the fins in the turbine housing, and the pitch and number of blades in the stator. Replacement stators are available with differing blade counts and pitches for customizable stall speeds.


Continental Torque Converters
(310) 674-1072
www.ctconverters.com



.

[KEN CROCIE]

B-Man, Paul K : We sold the Art Carr (now California Performance Transmissions-and I just put a CPT 200r4 in my P/U ) "Super torque" series with 13, 12, 11, and 10" converters. They worked great out of the box with our Pontiac engines. Good flash RPM with good lock up @ cruise-typically 150 RPM more vs a stick shift. We even made the buying decision easier by matching the converter to the cam being used - TR-01 with an HC-01,TR-02 With HC-02, TR-03 with HC-03 etc. Give Art a call. 714 901 3777 or 800 278 2277.

[Cliff R]

Correct Steve, and I should have been more specific with my response when it comes to stall speed "ratings".

Behind a 455 making decent power, the most popular unit we sell is often called the "Jim Hand" unit. Behind most 455's making over 500ft lbs torque it will flash to about 3200rpm's. My engine sends that converter to 3500rpms, so it really depends on how hard the engine "hits" the converter, vehicle weight, traction available, gear ratio, tire diameter, etc, etc.

The tightest version of the 10" units we've tested go to about 2800rpms behind a stout 455, but down around 2600rpms behind a 400 engine, and I NEVER spec them out for 400 builds.

The larger 13" unit, when available flashed to 3200rpm's behind my 455, but only 2800rpm's behind my previous 428 engine. The 13" unit behind a mild 400 engine will only go to about 2400rpms when hit with full power.

So there really isn't a 2600rpm unit for a stout 455, but a milder 400 or 428 may only send one to that rpm, or maybe even a bit less.

These unit are "custom built" for each application, as we provide ALL of the engine/drivetrain/vehicle specs when they are ordered, and I personally talk to Kris for each one he's going to build, to make sure it's custom for the application......Cliff

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by 74Grandville

Piece of pooh

I got that....It was just his entire post is saying Continental sent him a POS and in the last sentence he says " I'm not saying that Continental converters aren't good units but for a street car, you do have other options." In my world POS means it isn't a good unit!

[craigs69]

I just replaced my 12" B&M Holeshot 2400 with a new 10" Continental from Cliff. The Continental is definitely tighter for driving around town than the Holeshot was, but flashes around 3000 - 3100 RPM. Very nice converter.

[71 T/A]

Originally Posted by craigs69

I just replaced my 12" B&M Holeshot 2400 with a new 10" Continental from Cliff. The Continental is definitely tighter for driving around town than the Holeshot was, but flashes around 3000 - 3100 RPM. Very nice converter.

You must have had the B&M 12" 2000 converter. I tried that one too but the B&M 10" 2400 converter is a completely different kind of converter, which offers good lockup, 2500 stall and very good performance on the street.

[craigs69]

Originally Posted by 71 T/A

You must have had the B&M 12" 2000 converter. I tried that one too but the B&M 10" 2400 converter is a completely different kind of converter, which offers good lockup, 2500 stall and very good performance on the street.

Mine was B&M part #20412.

Summit link: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bmm-20412/overview/

B&M link: http://www.bmracing.com/products/204...h350-and-375b/

I don't think it was a bad converter, just a little looser that the Continental. I replaced it for the higher stall speed.

[71 T/A]

Originally Posted by craigs69

Mine was B&M part #20412.

Summit link: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bmm-20412/overview/

B&M link: http://www.bmracing.com/products/204...h350-and-375b/

I don't think it was a bad converter, just a little looser that the Continental. I replaced it for the higher stall speed.

Tried that one too. It's an 11" unit, which doesn't offer the same performance as the 10" one. The 20480 is the only B&M converter I've liked. The 20416, which is the 12" unit isn't bad, but at 2000 stall is only a tad better than stock.