[grandville455]

Ccass I called them...I am waiting back to hear from them after i sent them pics last week.......I 'll let you know..

[ricbrooks2]

I love this forum and while I think a lot of information is not 100% accurate it still is great information. A lot of posts are people's opinions about how easy or hard something is to do. One person might think it was not big deal and to the next it was a pain for the exact same installation. I think it depends on each person's ability and sometimes even their mood at the time of installation. I am in the middle of a restoration on a 1970 GTO now and some things that I think are a pain, someone else who has done it before probably thinks no biggie. Any how thanks to all who post information.

P.S. to anyone interested here is the link to my family website featuring a page on my GTO restoration. Which is not complete but I am documenting as I go.

http://mysite.verizon.net/resnym23/

[Darrell]

Update- CCAS must have called him because he was pissed that I am bad mouthing him all over the net. I told him I spoke nothing but the truth on this post and I will also post if this is a happy ending. Dougs said that they would repair them according to my pictures. No new side just repair mine . Also they said they want me to trial fit them before the recoat them.
I recieved them today and they still did not fit. I took about 15 more pictures and sent them to Dougs. I called them and they said I should talk to the welder. The welder called me back and we discussed the pictures and he now understands what I need. The welder said this would have been easier if I had sent pictures the first time. Guess what, I did sent them the first time, but he was never shown them.
The welder was a pretty good guy I told him I might miss two races because of this. He said he will make mine top proirity when he gets them.
This has not been a good experience for me and now the only thing keeping me from starting my 2 year resto is the headers. I now have $40 extra in shipping costs($20=2X). The worst part is Dougs telling me how that other companys would not do this and I am just lucky. I personially think any header co. would refund my money for the headers or at least cover the shipping. Also the ceramic coating for my troubles is out of the question, they said they could give me $25 off. So lets get this straight $400 for headers, $40 in extra shipping, putting ffff-in headers in and out 10 times, and ceramic coating for $150 more
(NORMALLY $175). A would be grand total of $590.
I decided to not get the ceramic, I kindof like the old school look of Darbys . Also when I brought up the rusting on Darbys the said they can almost guarantee it was not rust, or maybe just on the areas were the coating is scraped off. Sorry bud I saw Darbys with my own eyes. Also 3365 other eyes have seen this post. I still want someone with a 70 GTO to show me some pictures of the drivers side area were mine are hitting.

[Darrell]

Now since I am forever telling my wife to do this, I will give some positives.

-Install is pretty easy, just remember that you have to remove the oil filter adapter on the pass side. All bolts are much easier to get at than on any other header I have used.
-Oil filter will be a breeze to change.
-I like the little 3/8" head bolts. It is easy to fit a 3/8 wrench in the tight spots.
-The welder was a good guy

Are you happy now Amy(my wife)!!!

[Larry Navarro]

Very interesting but I'm not suprized,....
If anyone remembers back last year when "Tunnelport" Ron was having problems with DOUGS producing CORRECT Tri-Y's per his specification, this is just another example why others won't do business with DOUGS......once they get your money, they don't care about "YOUR" problems.

[Darrell]

How do the Tri Y's bolt up?

[Goin' Topless]

Wasn't rust??? Oh, yeah, it must be a rare form of bronze mildew that only forms on ceramic coated headers in Wisconsin! StaffoloDougi fungus!

From a customer service standpoint, the message you got was, 1) "Quit dis-ing us on the web, we're the best around," 2) "No one else would mess with this, so be GLAD we are, you insignificant bug!" And let's not forget, 3) "for you trouble, you can spend $150 instead of $175 for ceramic coating."

OK, that's overstating it a bit but you get the point.

Hats off to CCASS for stepping in to help out. He understands that one complaint can drive other people to spend their money elsewhere. CCASS did what Doug's should have done, try to make it right with no questions asked. It's too bad Doug's customer service took a defensive stance. This could have been a golden opportunity to impress their core Pontiac market.

I'm hoping the set I got from PY fits well. I don't know if I'd have the patience to send my headers back and forth like that. I'd be putting them on ebay and buy a set of Summits if I have to dent and scratch 'em.

[grandville455]

Man i FEEL YOUR PAIN DARRELL!! I was told in a email friday that they would be contacting me about mine guess what NOTHING!!! You guys look at my other post and you tell me if its rust or not?I will have to call back tomorrow ..what a crock of s***!!!And I dont care if they do read this there customer service sucks!! ANd the customer is the one that built there f****** empire!!! Yes thats how I feel right about now about this whole deal...

[Darrell]

I would also love to see a picture of the passenger side Dougs D590 headers off of the car.

I also want to thank CCAS for calling. CCAS has seen alot of my money and has always given me a good product. We will see how much he likes me if the next time I send the headers away its to him for a refund.

Hey Darb tell me how you really feel!

[GonzoF1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Goin' Topless:
It's too bad Doug's customer service took a defensive stance. This could have been a golden opportunity to impress their core Pontiac market. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

... and you know what? It worked. After reading this story I WILL NOT be buying Doug's headers. Customer service is my number one reason for sending a company my business. I thought about it for a while, but no more. I'll be sending my money elsewhere.

[Darrell]

They seemed to remind I was lucky because other companys would not do this. So in their world they have superior service! DUNNO? I just want to start my car.

[ChupaCabras]

thank you for the feed back. crossing out doug headers from my "to buy" list. I hope you get a refund, I will avoid the potential hassle and buy elsewhere.

[Larry Navarro]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Darrell:
How do the Tri Y's bolt up? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
From what I gather, everyone that I know of who has purchased Ron's headers are more than happy with the quality, fit and finish, not to mention the less expensive cost over a typical DOUGS header.
Ron has since changed header manufacturers....DOUGS sold out to another company but seems that they kept the same arrogant employees as before.

[Ccass]

I just read this. They are not open yet. In the meantime, Darrell and Grandville...can you please e-mail edw@performanceyears.com and myself exactly what you feel is a fair resolution for each of your situations. I will make sure you are taken care of.

In the future, I would appreciate it if you keep each subject confined to ONE topic. Darrell you should have ONE topic and Grandville, you should have ONE topic. The practice of 'UPDATING' in another topic is frowned upon in all bulletin board communities. Because once this is resolved, it may be hard for readers to follow all the topics and draw an accurate assessment of a suppliers customer service and quality. For example, with three topics now started, it may appear to some, like Doug's has a line-up of disatisfied customers. In 6 or 7 years of forums postings, I can't remember 1 bad thing being said about Doug's products or their customer service. I personally have never had anything but pleasant dealings and accurate information from them. And it's not like I am trying to protect them. You see I have allowed all posts to remain regardless of Doug's side of the story which is not being made public here.

Please keep in mind that when you post your complaints as they are happening It's potentially unfair to the supplier as many readers my not ever see a resolution to an issue. Over the years, I can't tell you how many members have posted complaints and despite positive resolutions, no 'follow-up' post is made. Regardless of this situation, the mfg has an extremely good reputation in the Pontiac community and you run the risk of seriously damaging that reputation. If the final outcome is negative, then their reputation deserves to be tarnished and posted here, but keep in mind, if the outcome is positive, there reputation has still been tarnished because there is pages of bad publicity and usually only one post that is positive. (the last post)

[shotgun]

I just finished an install on a customers 70 GTO with coated Dougs that were purchased threw PY,no problems what so ever.
The Dougs went on easier then a Maddog install I just did also,but that was an F body so apples to oranges.
I also have 2 sets of Ron's Tri-ys for F bodies also.Did a test fit and they were great except slight interferance with the AFTERMARKET bell housing.They would have fit the stock one fine.
If you want to email me(threw the link below) I will take pictures of any area you want and send them to you.
Hope this helps.
You will need to post them ,I am still a computer dork and don't know how to post pictures.

[Goin' Topless]

I bought my Doug's on their word-of-mouth reputation. I know that no header install is trouble free, so I bought my headers holding no illusions that it'll be easier than exhaust maifolds.

This is one of the few strings I've seen that's negative to Doug's headers. I've seen scores of other comments on here and in other boards that heartily endorse them. Am I scared away? Not really.

Is it possible that Darrel's customer service experience got off on the wrong foot? Sure. I'm sure they were upset by his comments, justifiable or not.

I consider the underlying message of this string to be: Forwarned is forearmed. Now I know the best avenues to take if I do have a problem with my headers.

[shotgun]

Well after emailing with Darrell,I found the set I put on are hitting in the same spot.
I hate the taste of crow!
Since Chris and Brian are not availible(out of town), Ed from PY gave me their contact person at Dougs.
So far they have been very helpful,I will have more info tomorrow after they get my pictures.

[Darrell]

Well Well!

Anyone else? Maybe its just the 70's. YOU BETTER CHECK!

Shotgun could you email me again? That was my work Email and I will not be there till Tuesday. I changed it in my profile.

[disc0monkey]

hopefully it will work out in the end.

[TUNNEL PORT]

Its funny how when theres a question about what header should I use on my car? You allways get the same guys that post instantly. "Dougs there the best!!!" & they will go right into how much better they fit, or how well there made & make Dougs seem IMORTAL . If any other header is mentioned then they will stress the fact that Dougs FIT THE BEST WITH NO PROBLEMS!!

These guys are usually guys that have Dougs name on there cars as a sponser or are good friends with Doug himself. Oh yes this is not the only thread posted about a problem with fit or access to oil filters or starter ect. Just that they were real good at convicing the guy his car was far less than perfect. They will go out of there way to tell anyone that has a problem, that there car has frame spread or was tweaked. Just like the response on page 2 of this topic. So where did they go?

The header was new. It never had exhaust through it. So why cant a new header that was defective be swaped for a new header that fits the Jig? Unless the Jig really wasn't the problem?

Why make a customer wait 2 weeks to get a header that is cut up & rewelded? You gave them a new unused header with a undamaged coating, right? So you should have a new header with undamaged coating returned to you.

Im sure that someone else has had to have the same issue with this header. That would make them aware of the problem at some time. Afterall Shotgun says the same thing.

The shipping issue is a no brainer. In this thread alone you just lost 3 buyers x $500 over a petty $40 shipping & trying to make some of your money back by charging for a recoat that you(Dougs) destroyed while repairing something that should have not been sold.

So even the most <span class="ev_code_RED">PETTY</span> owner could see that losing $1500 of sales just in this post & what 10, 20, 30 or what ever more are just reading this thread. 30x$500= $15,000. Over a $40+$150=$190 & 2 weeks of <span class="ev_code_RED">NEEDLESS</span> waiting. WOW!!! I realize were just Pontiac guys that pay twice as much for the same amount of welded steal tubes as a Chevy guy does. Sounds like a great gig. Dont loose your greatfull to pay a lot more than other brands customers.

Wow, I forgot which side I was on!