[68bird400HO]

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

QUOTE> 68BIRD "Be careful of the Comp XE cam line. People have tested these and noted that they don't work as well in our 455s as other cams. The fast ramps on the XE cams build a ton of cyliner pressure but don't give the motor enough time to breathe. "<END QUOTE

with stock ( STATIC) compression, 8.4, or 2 and a performer intake,newer 800 CFM Q jet and RA exhaust ( 2.5) a XE cam will help him get into the 12.s and breathe fine, if tuned properly. Even a roller cam, as long as his comp ratio remains stock, will never get a fully equipped TA down the strip in the 12's. need more pressure, more compression, more power building.
we All KNOW the HO 455 is a FASTER car than a slow SD!!!

A STOCK 8.4 CR ( STATIC CR) engine has a DYNAMIC compression ratio of about 7.5 ( running ) XE cams fix this, Im sure others may now advertise this feature as well.

Bruce,

Check out some of the threads regarding XE cams on the street board. Cliff has done 100s of hours of dyno testing, track testing, etc with several different cams and has noted that the XE cam line doesn't work as well with our motors as cams with standard lobe designs like the Crower line. The fast ramps of the XE line open and close the valves fast to build cylinder pressure which creates a narrower, peakier power band. However, a similar (or even smaller) duration Crower will make more power over rpm range in the end. Again, these results are based on dyno and track results.

Without a doubt, getting our compression ratio up just adds power across the entire rpm range, but our motors still have to breathe. My goal is to see 12s as well. After months of reading these threads, talking to builders, and trying to get a grasp of cam dynamics, I landed on this Ultradyne. It has an asymetrical lobe design (not the XE fast ramps) that work to build cylinder pressure on the compression stroke for our lower compression motors but close the exhaust valve slower on the exhaust stroke to allow a little more breathing.

[OVERULD]

Welcome to the Forum Jim - great looking TA with a neat history. You'll find plenty of good info here and a lot of enthusiastic support of your build. Keep us fed well with photos and track results and you'll have our undivided attention!

Love that photo in front of the motel - what a great way to cross the country but I bet it was hot without AC. I remember driving my 74 Formula 455 from Chattanooga, TN to Wichita Falls, TX in the summer of 1976. I had just finished basic training, and flew home to pick up my car and drive it back so I'd have it for the 16 weeks of technical training school at Sheppard AFB. I had AC so the drive was really pretty nice. That car ran awesome and on some of the long straight strecthes of road in Texas I scared myself at how fast that car would go! I spent the night as some little roadside motel like the one in the photo - man I wish I had taken some pictures of that car then.

BJ

[1971455HO]

BJ...is your hometown Chattanooga?

[OVERULD]

Originally Posted by 1971455HO

BJ...is your hometown Chattanooga?

Yep, born and raised there. Moved to Atlanta in 84.

BJ

[197oneTA]

Thanks for the welcomes! I appreciate the kind words.

Thanks also for the advice on my engine build. I am looking over the information carefully....

2manyT/A'S: By "Hookers" I assume your talking about headers?. It's pretty hard to believe but I am the 5th owner of my car since the original owner sold it in 1976, and it still has the original exhauts manifolds. When I bought the car, I didn't know that the original carb was still intact until I checked the numbers after I had it safely at my house.

Dens71TA & se428bandit: Who would have thought that 3 owners of cars built so close together would be able to communicate, share stories, etc. about those cars 40 years after they were built. Awesome! When I removed what I know to be the original carpet, (the carpet tag was found), I found 2 1969 pennies (one heads up and the other tails up) right next to each other under the middle of the passanger seat on top of the sound deadener. I was thinking it would be unlikely for them to get where they were, how they were, by coincidence. I thought maybe it was sombody leaving their mark during the build of the car.

68bird400HO: Are you planning on running the "Pure Stock" races? If I am reading it right, I would be able to strengthen up my bottom end with SD stuff, and still be able to qualify for "Pure Stock" racing. The way I'm reading it, and I could be wrong, is that I can build a motor using a different 4 bolt 455 block, and various other different components internally, that only add strength and would'nt give it an advantage, and as long as I was using unmodified components, 197 heads, the proper intake, carb , cam, valve stuff, and proper exhaust manifolds, it would be pure stock compliant. Making physical changes only so that your not putting your numbers motor at risk. I would love to run the Pure Stock races.... Sometimes I wish I lived back east. Nevertheless, I'm pretty sure I want to build my motor with the idea of someday being able to make some of those events in the not too distant future.

I think a more attainable and reasonable goal for me as far as 1/4 mile time would be mid to low 13's. I don't want to modify the car (frame connectors, etc). I would be open the 1970 12 bolt with 373's though!

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by 197oneTA

Thanks for the welcomes! I appreciate the kind words.

Thanks also for the advice on my engine build. I am looking over the information carefully....

2manyT/A'S: By "Hookers" I assume your talking about headers?.

I would be open the 1970 12 bolt with 373's though!

Actually I was referring to the full radius wheel opening spoiler kit that Hooker sold in the late 70's for Firebirds & many other cars.

Your stock 3:42 10 bolt SHOULD be up to the task provided it is good operating condition.

[68bird400HO]

I can't run pure stock with my cam. One of the restrictions is that the cam has to have a duration in the range of OEM. I don't know all of the restrictions but I do know that Dan Jensen's car is running in the 12.4s with their modified 068 cam. I believe Dan has bumped his compression up to the low 9s. They also allow some modifications like using a Pypes 2-1/2" system and replacing your points with a pertronix or similar module. I think 12s are reachable with a careful rebuild. I went with a little larger cam than stock to help me get there. In talking with Mark W, he mentioned to me that with the lower compression of these motors, a cam with an intake duration in the 221 range is really good. If you go higher than that, you will start to lose some bottom end. Some people run RAIV cams and claim that is the ticket. That might be a great cam if you can get your compression up to over 9.5 to 1, which would probably require you to run a slightly domed piston.

As far as your gearing, I would stick with the 3.42s. It will make for a much better driver if you want to get it out on the highway at all.

Also, on the penny thing, when I restored my '68 I found a 1968 penny under the sound deadener. I have heard that it wasn't to uncommon for the workers to add little tokens as the car went down the line.

[johnta1]

What can you run for LSA or overlap?

[RicksGTO]

for a great breakdown on the rules, see Mark's post near the top of the page:

http://www.forums.maxperformanceinc....=538654&page=5

.

[OVERULD]

Here is Dan's T37 at the 2009 CoVention - awesome car!





And a nice T/A to go with it!





And one of my favorites:



BJ

[se428bandit]

Originally Posted by RicksGTO

for a great breakdown on the rules, see Mark's post near the top of the page:

http://www.forums.maxperformanceinc....=538654&page=5

.

Well,that leaves my car out as i plan on cutting the heads and doing some port work and running a RA IV cam.I'm guessing you have to run Hemi's,427 Vette's and 454 Chevelle's all with solid lift cams over .500 lift.What a shame Pontiac never installed the RA IV cam in the 455 HO.

[tahosdra]

hey thanks for the compliment - that's my blue TA! 70 ram air 3 - 4 speed. stopped using it forracing as it is nos match front toback . i built a 72 ta with marks cam . it is a 4 spd . first time out it ran 13.10 at 109. discovered a bent valve and poor valve job at end of season. hoping for 12s this year.

[RAIVJUMB]

My T/A was about 2 weeks prior to 197's from memory 9/2/70, interesting to see others out there. Mine has some odd things associated with it, received a MT emissions decal even though it is an auto and has some things more like a 70 than a 71. mark

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by 68bird400HO

I can't run pure stock with my cam. One of the restrictions is that the cam has to have a duration in the range of OEM. I don't know all of the restrictions but I do know that Dan Jensen's car is running in the 12.4s with their modified 068 cam. I believe Dan has bumped his compression up to the low 9s. They also allow some modifications like using a Pypes 2-1/2" system and replacing your points with a pertronix or similar module. I think 12s are reachable with a careful rebuild. I went with a little larger cam than stock to help me get there. In talking with Mark W, he mentioned to me that with the lower compression of these motors, a cam with an intake duration in the 221 range is really good. If you go higher than that, you will start to lose some bottom end. Some people run RAIV cams and claim that is the ticket. That might be a great cam if you can get your compression up to over 9.5 to 1, which would probably require you to run a slightly domed piston.

As far as your gearing, I would stick with the 3.42s. It will make for a much better driver if you want to get it out on the highway at all.

Also, on the penny thing, when I restored my '68 I found a 1968 penny under the sound deadener. I have heard that it wasn't to uncommon for the workers to add little tokens as the car went down the line.

Most stock cams from the 60's and early 70's do NOT increase the DYNAMIC compression ratio. A stock 72 HO actually RUNNING has about 7.5 CR !!!( GASP!! I said it!!) Your Ultradyne compensates for that, as does my XE268.
just some thoughts.....

[197oneTA]

Wow, I love the pictures of the Pure Stock event from Overuld's post a couple back.... If your reading this post and haven't seen the pictures, go back to a couple posts and check them out!

I'm glad I really doug into this thread before I took my engine to the machine shop. I am going to take a bit more time and root out all of the best information I can as far as building my HO to be strong and also qualify for the Pure Stock event. My goal is to make an event in 2012. That sounds too far away..... but I have the local track to play at after I get her back together.

68bird400HO: Great information... Thank you. The penny thing is kind of cool. I would not have thought much of it accept that they both were the same date and how they were positioned... I should have taken a picture of them. I haven't looked for the girls name behind the glove box yet. Dash is coming out this week to fix up some cowl/corner of windshield and windshield frame rust. So I'll look for her name then!

2manyT/A'S: I think you and 68bird400HO, are right about the 342's too, by the way. I never remembered about the "Hookers" for the wheel wells. I'm only 44, and back in the late 70's, I was helping my dad my dad with his 78 TA 4 sp car. That is how I ended up with the Virgin set of SD heads. He originally bought them from Pontiac in 78 new for about $500 each. He had Huffaker Engineering build him a 455 engine. I was only 12 at the time but I already had the TA bug. I used to go down the quarter mile with him at Sears Point Raceway, sitting in the passanger seat. What great times.... I don't remember his best time, but I do remember he ran 107 mph one time. Oh yeah, he just picked up a 75 TA 4 sp. car. I guess he couldn't stand not having one since I'm always talking with him about mine and this thread!!

[OVERULD]

Originally Posted by tahosdra

hey thanks for the compliment - that's my blue TA! 70 ram air 3 - 4 speed. stopped using it forracing as it is nos match front toback . i built a 72 ta with marks cam . it is a 4 spd . first time out it ran 13.10 at 109. discovered a bent valve and poor valve job at end of season. hoping for 12s this year.

You're very welcome! I took a bunch of picture of your car at the CoVention last year -I believe you had it parked right next to Dan's T37. It is a beautiful car and frankly, I was glad to see it going down the track - doing what they were made to do - be driven! I drove my numbers matcing car from Atlanta to Dayton and back - loved every minute of it. I had planned to run it at Kilkare but on the way there that morning my brake master cylinder started leaking and my brakes got real soft. We nursed it back that afternoon after the races and wound up buying a new master cylinder at one of the vendors' booths back at the convention center, bench bleeding it right there and then putting it on the car. (Couldn't have picked a better venue/event for the MC to go out as it was sure easy to find a replacement!). We took the car back down the road to a shop we saw, gave them a few bucks to use their lift and bled the brakes - good to go!

Originally Posted by 197oneTA

Wow, I love the pictures of the Pure Stock event from Overuld's post a couple back.... If your reading this post and haven't seen the pictures, go back to a couple posts and check them out!

I'm only 44, and back in the late 70's, I was helping my dad my dad with his 78 TA 4 sp car. That is how I ended up with the Virgin set of SD heads. He originally bought them from Pontiac in 78 new for about $500 each. He had Huffaker Engineering build him a 455 engine. I was only 12 at the time but I already had the TA bug. I used to go down the quarter mile with him at Sears Point Raceway, sitting in the passanger seat. What great times.... I don't remember his best time, but I do remember he ran 107 mph one time. Oh yeah, he just picked up a 75 TA 4 sp. car. I guess he couldn't stand not having one since I'm always talking with him about mine and this thread!!

Hey Jim - glad you enjoyed the photos - actually that wasn't a Pure Stock event - just the drags held during the national meetings of the GTOAA and POCI - held jointly for the first time last year in Dayton- hence the CoVention theme. Regardless it was a blast and I have tons of photos of awesome Ponchos going down the track that day. I was like a kid in a candy store - overdosing on Pontiacs! Love the stories of you and your dad back in the day and especially that you've now gotten him back into the hobby! Get him on here posting - love to hear some of his stories.

BJ

[1971455HO]

Originally Posted by OVERULD

Yep, born and raised there.BJ

Me too. I'm an old East Brainerd boy.

[OVERULD]

There's a pretty sweet article by Dan Jensen in the new issue of Pontiac Enthusiast on the 1971 455 H.O. I'm not going to lie to you; I'm pretty dang excited about it! Best pull on the dyno was 514.1 HP/466.4 Lb Ft of torque! Basically a stock motor that will be going into a GT 37. Does this awesome motor belong to anyone here?

BJ

[OVERULD]

Edit: Either I mis-read the charts in the article or they are labled wrong. I re-read the article this morning and noted in the text that they said the best pull had HP at 392.9 at 4,600 RPM, and average hitting 368.5 with torque at 514.1 lb-ft at 3,300 and average at 466.4. Regardless, I'm still pretty excited about it!

BJ

[bird72]

Originally Posted by OVERULD

There's a pretty sweet article by Dan Jensen in the new issue of Pontiac Enthusiast on the 1971 455 H.O. I'm not going to lie to you; I'm pretty dang excited about it! Best pull on the dyno was 514.1 HP/466.4 Lb Ft of torque! Basically a stock motor that will be going into a GT 37. Does this awesome motor belong to anyone here?

BJ

That is awesome, I can't get that mag here, I guess I need to subscribe, I would like to read that. I assume that is through headers on a stand? I have been daydreaming / thinking about my future build with the HO top end I have. I run 96 heads now and Super Comp headers. I was going to run the HO exhaust manifolds with the HO heads, but I just think I would give up 40-50 HP on a well built HO versus upper end headers. I do plan on mild head work, mill and port a bit.