[gtorich]

Hi, had an old RobbMc Gen 1 mini for about 9 yrs, for some reason I wrecked the gears in it, Robb updated me to a Gen 2 with the nose cone.

One the old set up I used a 1/32 shim on the block...…...Robb said on the witness marks it looked good on the lash...…..so I just put it back together with a 1/32 shim, got a small screech, in instructions it says add another 1/32 shim.....still there, im up to 1/8 in shims now and still getting a light screech when starting...…..seems odd.

Couple pics for you guys...……..any idea"s if I need even more shims.

Seems like im wrecking stuff as I go along here. lol

I emailed Robb the pics, I was just curious with the guys who have the RobbMc mini, if your getting a little screech when starting the car.

Now sure on the kick back deal that wrecked my gears...……...im not even sure what kickback is...……...I could drive the car for hours, turn it off hot, and restart it as many times as I wanted, fired instantly no issues. so who knows.

Some how im thinking I wrecked something today, be it the starter or the flywheel.

Curious how many shims you guys are running.

Rich

[Formulajones]

Had a similar deal. The gear actually fell off dad's. When it was sent back to Robb he admitted it was an assembly defect, Loctite wasn't used to hold the retainer ball. Kind of wish he would use a better retainer setup but that's another story.

Anyway while he had it he mentioned he thought it could use more shims based off the witness marks. It did have mild screeching but it never made any difference how much I shimmed it one way or the other. I was skeptical, but per his advice I added another shim. It then proceeded to chew the gear right off the starter, lol.

That starter still sits on the shelf today. Currently has a cheap mini from summit with no pinion support (not a fan). I feel the damage was done anyway because every starter since screeches like a stuck pig. So it's going to get a new flexplate and start over. Probably end up with another RobbMC because he's the only one that offers a mini for Pontiac with a pinion support.

Hope you have better luck than I did.

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Had a similar deal. The gear actually fell off dad's. When it was sent back to Robb he admitted it was an assembly defect, Loctite wasn't used to hold the retainer ball. Kind of wish he would use a better retainer setup but that's another story.

Anyway while he had it he mentioned he thought it could use more shims based off the witness marks. It did have mild screeching but it never made any difference how much I shimmed it one way or the other. I was skeptical, but per his advice I added another shim. It then proceeded to chew the gear right off the starter, lol.

That starter still sits on the shelf today. Currently has a cheap mini from summit with no pinion support (not a fan). I feel the damage was done anyway because every starter since screeches like a stuck pig. So it's going to get a new flexplate and start over. Probably end up with another RobbMC because he's the only one that offers a mini for Pontiac with a pinion support.

Hope you have better luck than I did.

Hey Larry, good to hear from ya again...……..I emailed Robb, but im thinking im just gonna go back to the 1/32 shim...…….had that in there for years...….not sure why it wrecked , but it did. I really don't get much of a screech...…...car starts, so maybe its just in my head.

Still haven't gotten back to you on the A/F deal we talked about way back...……..I have to laugh, 15 yrs without the car really giving me issues, and now everything is falling apart, I love it. lol

Rich

[Formulajones]

LOL isn't that how it always works

I think Robb has a minimum clearance he likes to see but I can't remember what that was. It might be on his website.

Our deal was a little different in that the gear not being retained properly I think did some damage to the flexplate, so no amount of shimming would quiet the thing down. By the time the gear fell off and the problem discovered it was too late.

[92GTA]

I installed mine a couple of months ago, shimmed it to specs, quietest starter I've ever had. Mine took a LOT of shims on my 1969 400 block.

[Speargun]

I installed a 1st gen starter on my 455 while it was on the stand and followed the instructions for clearances to the letter. Fast, quiet starts, but it took a LOT of shims.

[tooski]

I have Robb's second gen on my 461. Followed instructions regarding clearance to the flexplate (required a shim), and the tooth clearance when engaged (took a few starter to block shims). So far so good.

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by Speargun

I installed a 1st gen starter on my 455 while it was on the stand and followed the instructions for clearances to the letter. Fast, quiet starts, but it took a LOT of shims.

Hey Spear, just curious about how many shims did you use...……..when I emailed Robb he thought I had too many shims, think I was about a 1/4 worth of them.

What I ended up doing today was mark all the teeth on the starter, threw in a 1/32 shim , started the car up a few times...……..seemed ok, looked at the witness marks , looked like about 5/16 in, according to the instructions, that is ok.

I had a 1/32 shim in the Gen 1 for about 8-10 yrs, got the gen 2 now with nose guard, so hope im good to go for awhile now.

I got really confused on that root diameter backlash deal, according to Robb, you would come closest to the root if using no shims...……….guess im still confused on this, because if you keep adding more and more shims are you not getting less and less ring gear contact.

Long story, almost shorter, car starts the way it has been for the last 10 or so years, so hoping im good to go.

Spear, that must have been a lot easier doing that on a stand, I couldn't see anything right laying on my back. lol

Thanks for the help guys

Rich

[Speargun]

I had around 1/4" worth of shims on mine. When I sent the mini starter back to have the solenoid rebuilt I put a factory starter on the engine and it only needed 2 or 3 shims.

[Formulajones]

In almost every case here with stock starters and stock blocks, I almost never ever need to shim them. Once in a blue moon I'll need one or two shims but it's not very often.

The RobbMC deal though seems to want shims. What separates my deal from others is that I'm doing this on an aftermarket MR1 block so there are no guarantees that starter surface is anywhere near what a stock block is. Then throw in what seems like a starter that wants a lot of shims.

The fact that the gear wasn't retained properly on our first RobbMC starter just threw a monkey wrench in the whole deal and I think that's why it made noise no matter where I shimmed it. After that the flexplate seems to have a funky wear pattern on it because now 2 other starters that were once fine, aren't quiet at all.

[68WarDog]

Power Master XS torque starters with EXCELLENT customer services

[Formulajones]

I ran one on a sbc 400 for a while that did okay but without the pinion support I was just waiting, lol

Dad had one on his GTO a few years back. It dropped the gear on the ground at a car show. Those are retained with a C-clip, which simply gave up. He was able to just slide the gear back on the starter, it started and he drove it home. Ran up to the local hardware store for another C-clip and snapped that on and continued to drive it back to the show the next day without issues.

Easy and cheap fix, but I'm just not much of a fan of starters without pinion support.

Ironically that's exactly what he has back on the car right now when the RobbMC gave up. But it's now not sounding all that healthy as of late LOL

[Formulajones]

Revisiting this.

I just installed another RobbMC starter on the car. This one has the nose cone support as the previous one did. I did a brand new flex plate as well.

Checking clearance and this one needs no shims at all. Right against the block it has .032" clearance on the gear. Most places call for .020" to .035" I'm toward the larger end of that with no shims so I left it be.

Cranks nice and quiet and sounds good. I only hear a screech when the engine starts and releasing the starter. I believe that is because the gear reaches too far forward into the flex plate and can't release quick enough when the engine fires. Unfortunately I don't see a way to shim the snout to correct this as you can with some starters. I don't think Robb has that designed into this model.

Anyway, sounds good otherwise and hopefully this one will last longer than the others before it.

[AG]

Originally Posted by gtorich

Hey Spear, just curious about how many shims did you use...……..when I emailed Robb he thought I had too many shims, think I was about a 1/4 worth of them.

What I ended up doing today was mark all the teeth on the starter, threw in a 1/32 shim , started the car up a few times...……..seemed ok, looked at the witness marks , looked like about 5/16 in, according to the instructions, that is ok.

I had a 1/32 shim in the Gen 1 for about 8-10 yrs, got the gen 2 now with nose guard, so hope im good to go for awhile now.

I got really confused on that root diameter backlash deal, according to Robb, you would come closest to the root if using no shims...……….guess im still confused on this, because if you keep adding more and more shims are you not getting less and less ring gear contact.

Long story, almost shorter, car starts the way it has been for the last 10 or so years, so hoping im good to go.

Spear, that must have been a lot easier doing that on a stand, I couldn't see anything right laying on my back. lol

Thanks for the help guys

Rich

Did you pull the gear out into the flywheel teeth to check the clearance or did you install it trial and error based on the sound of the engagement?

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by AG

Did you pull the gear out into the flywheel teeth to check the clearance or did you install it trial and error based on the sound of the engagement?

LOL, that's probably the right way to do it...……...so im sure I didn't go that route.

Kind of trial and error, couldn't see anything the way I was doing it, but so far I just used the one shim I always had in for years, good to go for now.

Rich

[64speed]

Not to hijack this thread but the summit racing mini starter that I had worked three times then sheared the teeth off. While the engine was on the stand we put an AC DELCO rebuilt factory starter on it and it worked great the whole day we were testing the engine on the stand. I had the summit starter rebuilt and want to run it because I have dougs headers but if y’all think the stock GM starter will work with the headers using a ford solenoid on the firewall I will leave well enough alone.

[Formulajones]

We've run stock starters on Pontiacs for decades with tube headers and no need for the ford solenoid trick. The starters have always worked flawless, unless you get some cheap rebuilt unit.

I still run a 25 year old stock starter on my RAIII, now with RA manifolds, still works fine. Had headers on that car for the better part of 15 years with the same starter.

Only reason I'd run a mini is if the stock starter simply will not fit anymore, as in the case with my fathers car. He's been through 4 mini's on that car now in the last 5-6 years.