[Stickman77]

Looking to swap out my TH400 for a 700R4 in my '65 grand prix for the overdrive. Has anybody done this swap?

Ill be running a 428 stroker with 3.42 posi rear

[Stuart]

There have been a number of discussions on this topic, here's one: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ighlight=700R4

Use the advanced search function in the bar at the top of the page (click on Search and then Advanced Search), then search for 700R4 in just this section.

[hurryinhoosier62]

How much hp and torque? Neither a 700R4 or a TH200R4 will survive behind a performance Pontiac for very long WITHOUT a major infusion of cash to upgrade their internal components.

[Stickman77]

Im aware of the previuos topics on this swap, however im looking for this swap done in a '65 GP specifically

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

How much hp and torque? Neither a 700R4 or a TH200R4 will survive behind a performance Pontiac for very long WITHOUT a major infusion of cash to upgrade their internal components.

This is wrong. The 700 will go to 450 with very minor changes. The 200 won't.

[Sirrotica]

Or you can swap a stock 4L80E (a T400 with, OD added by GM engineers) and never have to worry about it breaking during your lifetime. Just be forewarned that you have to have a electronic control unit for a 4L80E so it's a little more involved than a manually controlled transmission. Also only chevy bell pattern so an adapter plate is required also.

[pfilean]

Someone may need to correct me but I think I have heard that the 700 only came with a Chevy bell housing pattern whereas the 200 can be had with a BOP pattern. So the 700 may need an adaptor.
As you have a 65 you presumably have the block mounted starter and the 200 should bolt right up.
I have a friend who put a 200 behind a mildly built 455 Olds. After the 200 was properly upgraded it still lives well.

[Chief of the 60's]

700's need an adaptor plate but even with that it is still cheaper by far than a 200. A 700 is basically a TH350 with an O.D.

[AROWHED]

I'd bet the 700 will fit the 65 B body floor just fine, but you will need a BOP bellhousing adaptor (not sure if an appropriate Ultra Bell is available), driveshaft mods, cable shifter mods, trans crossmember mods. Personally Id go with a 4L80\85E, which will also require all the above, but you can also install the Transgo full manual shift kit, so no need for a computer. You will lose speedo cable output.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by AROWHED

I'd bet the 700 will fit the 65 B body floor just fine, but you will need a BOP bellhousing adaptor (not sure if an appropriate Ultra Bell is available), driveshaft mods, cable shifter mods, trans crossmember mods. Personally Id go with a 4L80\85E, which will also require all the above, but you can also install the Transgo full manual shift kit, so no need for a computer. You will lose speedo cable output.

There is a kit with a new tailshaft housing that can be used to keep the mechanical cable and housing and use the T400 drive gears. Also there is a kit that converts the electronic speedometer pulses and has an electric motor to drive the speedometer cable at the correct rate if you choose to keep the OEM speedo, which I think is more than likely what the OP will opt for.

Then also there is the GPS speedometers that use satellites to figure true speed. And then there is a standalone electronic speedometer that uses the 4L80E electronic to signal it. The speedometer should not be a stumbling block for a 4L80E conversion, with 4 proven alternatives readily available.

By the same token a $50 adapter plate to mate a chevy bell, to a BOP pattern engine should also not be a problem. I hardly see why people throw out the BOP to chevy bolt pattern as such a huge obstacle that needs to be overcome.

Fifteen minutes bolting the plate to the back of the Pontiac engine and it will accept and chevy pattern transmission. You do know that the bottom 2 bolts are in the same place on both bolt patterns correct? Then the steel plate adapts the four upper bolts that don't match, it doesn't get much easier than that. A chevy transmission is not going to take someone a week to mate to a Pontiac engine, or cost you $1000 for and adapter plate. There are probably 10 companies that make and sell the adapter plate with Speedway and Jegs under $50.

These plates have been around for the express purpose of adapting BOP to chevy and vice versa for decades. I surely wouldn't let a simple bolt on adapter dictate a less suited transmission for a swap.

Regarding the full manual 4L80E, it would not be my choice to have mine full manual, but you may delight in changing gears up and down while driving.

Being that a 65 B body has the long tail transmission no matter what you choose for a transmission, you're likely going to have to have a longer driveshaft made, the transmissions being discussed are all shorter than the original long tail T400 is.

The crossmember is also going to have to be moved, most likely forward in the chassis. It should be a fairly straight forward job, it may entail welding the frame mounting tabs, or extending the center shelf on the crossmember where the mount rests.

GM standardized as many of their parts as possible to keep them interchangeable between divisions and different chassis. Using that basis of interchangeability makes GM cars much easier to do many hot rodding swaps than some other brands. Ford was notorious for making engineering changes every few years that made swapping parts more difficult in the same car family, even having to know the build date within the same year for running engineering changes for ordering parts.

Anyone with some mechanical aptitude should be able to make an OD transmission swap into a 65 B body in a weekend providing they have all the necessary parts and tools available upon starting the swap. Each transmission will have it's own needs for adaption, and some will be cheaper to install, as well as some will require more effort to have a functioning system.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by AROWHED

You will lose speedo cable output.

They can be converted from electronic to mechanical. Will not "lose" anything.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

This is wrong. The 700 will go to 450 with very minor changes. The 200 won't.

Have you been inside either transmission? The 4L60E/4L65E are both much stronger than a 700R4. Like Brad, my choice would be a 4L80E.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Have you been inside either transmission? The 4L60E/4L65E are both much stronger than a 700R4. Like Brad, my choice would be a 4L80E.

LOL! Have you?????

The 700R4, 4L60 and 4L60e are all the same transmission. The 4L60 is a re-named 700R4 and 4L60e is the electronic version of the 700R4/4L60 utilizing electronics to eliminate the TV cable.

You can root for Brad all you want but when it comes to GM O.D. we are both on the same page.

[242177P]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

LOL! Have you?????

Deflection.

Art Carr built your 700R4.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

LOL! Have you?????

The 700R4, 4L60 and 4L60e are all the same transmission. The 4L60 is a re-named 700R4 and 4L60e is the electronic version of the 700R4/4L60 utilizing electronics to eliminate the TV cable.

You can root for Brad all you want but when it comes to GM O.D. we are both on the same page.

I’ve overhauled all three. Answer the question: have YOU been inside any of these transmissions? From your display of magazine acquired knowledge my guess is “NO”. There are significant internal differences in the 700R4 and the 4L60E/4L65E transmissions, especially in the clutch pack shields and sun gears. The 700R4 was infamous for its cheap ass clutch shield that failed in a regular basis.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by 242177P

Deflection.

Art Carr built your 700R4.

You remind me of a guy on another forum who has a car in his avatar that no one has ever seen. The guy is a bonified poser who would be lost without his Google. I'll tell you what, why don't you post up a picture of your car or cars and let everyone see what car or cars you actually own. Now I don't care if it is a T/A or an Astre, hell I don't even care if it is in one piece. I just want you to post a picture of your vehicle and to be certain that it is a "current" photo, write today's date on a piece of paper and include it in the photo.

You see, I will not compete against your Google experience but I sure as hell know my hands-on experience.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

I’ve overhauled all three. Answer the question: have YOU been inside any of these transmissions? From your display of magazine acquired knowledge my guess is “NO”. There are significant internal differences in the 700R4 and the 4L60E/4L65E transmissions, especially in the clutch pack shields and sun gears. The 700R4 was infamous for its cheap ass clutch shield that failed in a regular basis.

LOL! If you and the Canuck above you say so.

LOL! A Hoosier and a Hoser. Too funny.

To the OP, you don't have listen to me, Sirrotica knows his chit too.

[242177P]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

You remind me of a guy on another forum who has a car in his avatar that no one has ever seen.

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

The guy is a bonified poser who would be lost without his Google.

Bona fide.

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

I just want you to ...

Oh. You want me to... I'll get right on that, LOL.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

LOL! If you and the Canuck above you say so.

LOL! A Hoosier and a Hoser. Too funny.

To the OP, you don't have listen to me, Sirrotica knows his chit too.

Is it your modus operation to ALWAYS be the smart ass “know-it-all” who in reality knows little? I’ve been inside these transmissions. Horsepower IS NOT what kills them: it’s torque and high fluid temps. Both the 700R4 and the TH200R4 were designed to survive behind engine with 400 ft-lbs or LESS of torque. The mildest engines in the middle 60s had torque numbers north of 400 ft-lbs. IMO, the 4L80E is a nearly perfect fit for this application, since this GP already has a TH400.

[stevep]

If you do use a 700R4, what rear gears will you use?