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Old 10-15-2019, 11:01 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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For solid roller lifters and hydraulic roller lifters, the component parts are often sourced in China. Needle bearings and the rollers, the most wear critical parts, are the ones typically outsourced. I don't know which brands use Chinese needles and rollers, but Comp did years ago and had a rash of failures. The quality of the bearing grade steel used for the rollers is critical as well as the heat treat and the precision parallel grinding of the OD and pin hole. Some of the manufacturers play pretty fast and loose with the "made in the USA" tag. Many are assembled in the USA from Chinese components. It's a complicated deal when dealing with parts that can ruin an entire engine if a needle and roller fail.

  #42  
Old 10-15-2019, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by tom s View Post
Calvin!i have been in the building the Shavers are made and I have not been to CHINA!And I'm pretty sure morels are not made off shore!Thats one of the issues with the Internet,people can post BS and the world takes it as gospel!Fake news!
Ask them if they are 100% made in the USA, not just assembled. Get a set Rockwell tested for hardness.

The high end morels are not made offshore. Ask them if they manufacture in the same facility, a true Pontiac / Olds Hydraulic roller lifter and if it’s the same as Lunati, Howard’s, Nickels..

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  #43  
Old 10-15-2019, 11:21 PM
tom s tom s is online now
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Calvin,I have been in the building they are made not assm.I don't know about the Morels as I don't use them.I gues John Callie's could tell as the Morels are made for many cam makers.I have been told as I said the Cranes have the best QC of all the Hyd roller lifters.If I ever have a issue with the Comp Cams Shaver lifters I will try a set of Cranes.Crower has Pontiac Hyd roller lifters and have never read anything about being used on any of the boards.By the way the RA V foils I just sold you were made on a CNC machine in the backyard in Santa Ana Ca BUT the alu might have come from China!LOL

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Old 10-16-2019, 06:37 AM
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It doesn't matter where the Comps are made, the quality is atrocious and I can't believe they are selling them knowing how many people are having issues. I installed mine exactly as recommended by Comp and have had nothing but problems, one lifter wheel broke and got another new set and 5 lifters collapsed immediately on start-up. Comp sent 3 new pairs and I'm still having issues with how the engine runs and loud ticking. I can't imagine if this was a customer's motor.

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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
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Old 10-16-2019, 06:44 AM
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Tony, can you convert it to solid roller lifters?

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  #46  
Old 10-16-2019, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by tom s View Post
Calvin,I have been in the building they are made not assm.I don't know about the Morels as I don't use them.I gues John Callie's could tell as the Morels are made for many cam makers.I have been told as I said the Cranes have the best QC of all the Hyd roller lifters.If I ever have a issue with the Comp Cams Shaver lifters I will try a set of Cranes.Crower has Pontiac Hyd roller lifters and have never read anything about being used on any of the boards.By the way the RA V foils I just sold you were made on a CNC machine in the backyard in Santa Ana Ca BUT the alu might have come from China!LOL
IMO Cranes were the best option.... I'm not sure the ones you get today are the same as the ones you bought five years ago.

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Old 10-16-2019, 07:52 AM
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It doesn't matter where the Comps are made, the quality is atrocious and I can't believe they are selling them knowing how many people are having issues. I installed mine exactly as recommended by Comp and have had nothing but problems, one lifter wheel broke and got another new set and 5 lifters collapsed immediately on start-up. Comp sent 3 new pairs and I'm still having issues with how the engine runs and loud ticking. I can't imagine if this was a customer's motor.
It's very easy to tell if the Comps are their "Shaver" lifters or their "others" ... Shaver uses a retainer to hold the pushrod cup that looks like a spiral lock, the others are a snap ring. It would be interesting to know which ones you're are having issues with. Regardless it'd be nice if they would supply with a set that function properly.

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Old 10-16-2019, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by AG View Post
It doesn't matter where the Comps are made, the quality is atrocious and I can't believe they are selling them knowing how many people are having issues. I installed mine exactly as recommended by Comp and have had nothing but problems, one lifter wheel broke and got another new set and 5 lifters collapsed immediately on start-up. Comp sent 3 new pairs and I'm still having issues with how the engine runs and loud ticking. I can't imagine if this was a customer's motor.
Perhaps I just was just unlucky as the set I got from Summit were "S" but 4 of them collapsed pretty much instantaneously. Interestingly, Summit took them back and said they had heard similar feedback on them. When I spoke a tech at Comp he more or less said he wasn't surprised either. In fairness, it could also have been poor choice on my behalf for the cam selection.

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Old 10-16-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by PAUL K View Post
It's very easy to tell if the Comps are their "Shaver" lifters or their "others" ... Shaver uses a retainer to hold the pushrod cup that looks like a spiral lock, the others are a snap ring. It would be interesting to know which ones you're are having issues with. Regardless it'd be nice if they would supply with a set that function properly.
Paul, I bought a set from you.....last year?? Can't remember when exactly, but I believe they are the Shavers that you recommend, with the proper oil band for Pontiac, and you were kind enough to make sure before you shipped them.

Happy to say they've been flawless so far, quiet as a mouse, and have no problem hitting the 6200 rev limiter before dad can move the shifter. Paul C spec'd the springs on that one, with 150 lbs. seat pressure and 420 lbs. open for the custom camshaft he also spec'd.

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Old 10-16-2019, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by shaker455 View Post
Tony, can you convert it to solid roller lifters?
I can, but if I can't make these work I will get the Hylift/Johnson HR lifters.

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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
  #51  
Old 10-16-2019, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by PAUL K View Post
It's very easy to tell if the Comps are their "Shaver" lifters or their "others" ... Shaver uses a retainer to hold the pushrod cup that looks like a spiral lock, the others are a snap ring. It would be interesting to know which ones you're are having issues with. Regardless it'd be nice if they would supply with a set that function properly.
They are Shaver with the spiroloc you described. The first set was from 2017 and the set they replaced them for were from this summer 2019, five lifters from the later set collapsed the pushrod cups in the first 10 seconds of run time and would not come back up. Those were sent back and replaced with new ones which I am still having issues with, really sick of this.

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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:14 AM
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I built a motor 10 years ago and used the old non-Shaver Comp HR lifters and it has no issues, still going strong. Anyone use Crower's HR lifters?

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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
  #53  
Old 10-16-2019, 11:27 AM
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I built a motor 10 years ago and used the old non-Shaver Comp HR lifters and it has no issues, still going strong. Anyone use Crower's HR lifters?
The last 455 I put together for my father about 15 years ago used the old Comp hydraulic rollers. The ones with the oil band in the wrong location, basically chevy lifters. What's funny is it didn't have the lifter bore mod, and that thing was quiet as a mouse and worked flawless for about 5 years on a .600" roller until the engine snapped an oil pump shaft. Still have those lifters in a box, nothing wrong with them.

Now using a new set of Shavers with the correct oil band location in dad's 571 ci and they are also whisper quiet and work excellent. No lifter bore mod in this engine either, but I believe the MR1 block has a more user friendly lifter bore oil feed hole, not that it matters, the Shavers have the correct location anyway.

Here's a picture of them side by side.

Have not used Crower's HR lifters, but did use Crower's solid rollers with bushed rollers (no needles) and pressurized oiling. About as good as a solid lifter gets, they didn't last 4,000 miles before a roller went flat and took the cam with it. So even a solid roller you're not out of the woods.
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  #54  
Old 10-16-2019, 11:32 AM
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To add, the most recent 455 I did with a hydraulic roller, I got the lifters from Paul C. The Johnsons were not available at that time with no ETA. So Paul supplied a different brand he recommended. I can't remember the brand now, but they weren't Comps as he does not use those.

I recall these don't have the oil band in the correct location either, so Paul did the lifter bore mod on this block.

So far they've been fine, they don't bleed down and have been quiet, and had no issue buzzing to 6,000 on the dyno.

  #55  
Old 10-16-2019, 11:49 AM
darbikrash darbikrash is offline
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The last engine build earlier this year I used Comp 857 rollers. During assembly, I tried something different, I made an aluminum bushing for the distributor hole and rigged up a cheap Harbor Freight drill to run the oil pump hands off while I set the lifter preload.

Nothing but problems with the lifters. I did check the oil band location carefully, and it was fine, at least with my cam (OF 2).

Could not get the all the lifters set properly. So I rigged up a flat steel plate that bolted into the valve cover threaded holes and set up a dial indicator to measure movement on the valve tip while I adjusted the lifters.

With the lifters pumped up (oil pump spinning), you would expect the ½ turn lash adjustment to move the valve stem tip downward as the oil in the lifter body is incompressible and it hasn't had time to bleed down. Something has to move, and it is the valve stem. This means the valve is being held open as confirmed by the dial indicator.

Now, when you turn off the oil pump (drill motor), you expect the lifter to bleed down, allowing the valve to seat.

Watching the dial indicator, most of them did. Some did not. All bled down at different rates, some within a few seconds, other took 15 minutes. Some never did come down- leaving the valve slightly open.

This is tolerance wander pure and simple, and it means these lifters are pretty much junk.

I adjusted them the best I could, hoping that maybe they would clean up with some run time.

On the dyno at Westech, we had more lifter problems with poor valve seating. The “fix” is to adjust the lifter with zero lash so the valve is not held open. Which means it's going to be noisy and tick. Not very encouraging for a new engine.

The guys at Westech dyno hundreds of engines and they said this lifter business is an epidemic. That day, they had a car on the chassis dyno with a collapsed lifter, and another on the next engine cell also with a lifter problem.

They told me that they have tested extensively, and in their opinion the only lifter with acceptable tolerances is the Crane. Which is almost double the cost of the Comp 857.



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  #56  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:01 PM
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darbikrash,

Same issue here. I initially use a 1/2 turn adjustment and got about 11" of vacuum with the OF cam when I was expecting 12". There was some ticking so I tried a full turn adjustment and I got run on after the motor was shut off (engine wasn't hot, timing is 36° with Eddy heads, nothing causing the run on). I've used 1/2, 3/4, and 1 full turn adjustment without luck. I noticed the same bleed down phenomena as you did, some bled down quickly and some bled down really slow so I thought the valves might be hung open also. I'm going to try adjusting a 1/4 turn and it this doesn't work, they will be replaced.

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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
  #57  
Old 10-16-2019, 01:05 PM
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I can, but if I can't make these work I will get the Hylift/Johnson HR lifters.
Dan has not moved yet?

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  #58  
Old 10-16-2019, 01:34 PM
nmoreilly nmoreilly is offline
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They are Shaver with the spiroloc you described. The first set was from 2017 and the set they replaced them for were from this summer 2019, five lifters from the later set collapsed the pushrod cups in the first 10 seconds of run time and would not come back up. Those were sent back and replaced with new ones which I am still having issues with, really sick of this.
Very similar to the issue I had. Just curious what your cam specs ?- assume they are the ones in your tag line

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Old 10-16-2019, 02:26 PM
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Very similar to the issue I had. Just curious what your cam specs ?- assume they are the ones in your tag line
Apologies, that should have read NOT the ones in your tag line

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Old 10-16-2019, 05:02 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
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So, I bought these used for a year lifters. Had them for several years myself just sitting for a future build.
They have the snap ring. They all seem to be in good shape.
What is the chance they are the failure prone ones ? Looks like a crapshoot to me. Has Comp always used offshore parts ? Some have had success with these.
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