[TheGrudge]

Anyone out there using these? They seem like a good option on paper. My builder will not use Ross, says JE or CP are where it's at, he's cool with SRP
but I can't find a 4.190 6.8 rod 1.3 comp height piston other than DSS or Icon.
Race Tech seem willing to do bore & comp height changes without sacrificing a testicle. Icon seem to be well liked but what about DSS? Bore is at 4.181, SRP does a 4.185 - not so sure that .004 is enough for a cleanup. Any ideas appreciated.

[PAUL K]

Yes we use them all the time. Best deal out there for the price IMO. We've used them in restoration engines and 1000+ horsepower turbo applications. Zero issues.

[Dragncar]

So what problem does your builder have with Ross pistons ? Plenty of engines have been built and never had a problem with them.
Butler, All Pontiac and KRE would not sell them if they were junk.

[Skip Fix]

Most companies doing a CH height change is not a real expensive change.

[TheGrudge]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

So what problem does your builder have with Ross pistons ? Plenty of engines have been built and never had a problem with them.
Butler, All Pontiac and KRE would not sell them if they were junk.

I'm not trying to offend anyone!
Hey - I more or less told him the same thing; he's not the first to say he's not fond of Ross Pistons though. Here's the thing. I've been a motor mechanic for 20 years.He's been building race engines from Touring Car to Formula Ford/Lotus to V12 Aston Martin to SR20/4G63/RB30 and winning races & championships for 40+ years. When I first spoke to him about building my motor he already knew all the " secret Pontiac engine builder " stuff. Bottom line - I am in no position to tell him how to do his job. I just want a reliable street/strip car.

[PAUL K]

AutoTec 's policy used to be three changes to a shelf piston for free. Then some guy started selling the pistons on Ebay below the manufacturer's suggested pricing and was always asking for multiple changes. So their new policy is one change for free and an engineering fee for the others.

[TheGrudge]

That's the sort of sh#@t that puts your local speed shop out of business. The guy sells out of his Mom's garage, doesn't pay advertising, warehousing, wages etc., undercuts everyone & makes the regular retailer look like a thief in the process.
Sorry for the rant.
I'm not so interested in free changes/mods, it seems to me though that a company with such a policy is likely to be more amenable to doing custom orders, particularly small changes. To me a manufacturing company with a policy like this is better armed to survive against online only vendors. As customers we all should be mindful that lowest price shouldn't be the only criterion for making a purchase. This is not true only of auto parts.
Stepping down from my soapbox!

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by TheGrudge

That's the sort of sh#@t that puts your local speed shop out of business. The guy sells out of his Mom's garage, doesn't pay advertising, warehousing, wages etc., undercuts everyone & makes the regular retailer look like a thief in the process.
Sorry for the rant.
I'm not so interested in free changes/mods, it seems to me though that a company with such a policy is likely to be more amenable to doing custom orders, particularly small changes. To me a manufacturing company with a policy like this is better armed to survive against online only vendors. As customers we all should be mindful that lowest price shouldn't be the only criterion for making a purchase. This is not true only of auto parts.
Stepping down from my soapbox!

You're exactly right!

[jm455ho]

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Benjamin Franklin

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by jm455ho

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Benjamin Franklin

Yeah, it's too bad that all Pontiac guys don't have the funds to buy the best of everything.

In a perfect world, we could all just send the Butlers about 30 grand or so and say " spare no expense".

But the fact is, that a large % of Pontiac street guys are on a very limited budget. That's the way I've always had to race. So, to tell a guy he needs $800 Ross pistons, Oliver rods, ported alum heads, and a roller cam, just ain't very practical.

Maybe cast rods and TRW(SP) pistons are all he can afford. That's what I had to use. Won lots of races with 'em. Would I have bought Crower Rods and Venolia pistons if I'd had plenty of money ? Sure.

There's a guy on another site who said he'd never make another pass down the track with a Chinese rod. He showed a set of Olivers he was working with. There are probably thousands of Chinese equipped Pontiac engines running on the street and strip, without any rod problems. So, should Chinese rods and cranks be used or not ? They ARE cheaper.

Nuff said.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Dragncar View Post
So what problem does your builder have with Ross pistons ? Plenty of engines have been built and never had a problem with them.
Butler, All Pontiac and KRE would not sell them if they were junk.


Most engine builders base opinions like that on what they have seen in their own or customers engines over time. Some base those opinions on dyno and track results. And others base it on experience with the People who own the company or make the parts. I would not say Ross Pistons are junk. How could that be a correct statement with all the engines out there running them and races won with them. However, They would not be my first choice in a custom piston, especially in an extreme use situation. My experience has been they are very shiny and pretty. But when they are in the engine, you don't get to see them anymore. In extreme use I have witnessed some issues, cracked skirts, crushing of the pin boss , sagging of the piston head, collapse of the skirts below the oil ring groove. I believe most of this is due to the very light construction of their pistons. In an NA, high revving engine, this may be a real advantage. Every builder has their favorites. That's why so many brands are out there. I really like BME pistons for the reasons above and especially because Bill Miller himself has taken a personal interest in our crazy Pontiac Project. I also like Venolia, CP, and Diamond because they are really strong. If someone presents a set of Ross Pistons and they are appropriate for the application, they would be just fine and I wouldn't hesitate to use them.

As far limited budget racing. Everyone has a budget and needs to stay within that budget to keep them and their family happy. The problem for an engine builder is when the customer has John Force ideas about horsepower on a Volkswagon budget. When low cost/low quality parts are thrown together especially by a 3rd party engine builder and the customer puts a blower/turbo or nitrous or over rev's it NA and blows it apart, it is the lousy ENGINE BUILDER that caused all this on a NEW ENGINE. It is extremely important that the customer have realistic goals when using sub-standard Chinese parts that they will not get top tier performance from them. May be adequate for their needs, and that's great. But how many times has this been repeated? SPEED COST MONEY; HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO? A 500 HP, reliable Pontiac V-8 is child's play with stock OE parts, Chinese parts and reasonable RPM. If that's not enough, you have to step-up to better stuff that cost more. A good engine builder is an advisor and coach, as well as a builder.

[Blued and Painted]

Took a set of ross pistons to my machinist. He uses a lot of Hypereutectic. He sat down with a mic and measured my piston for what seemed like 5 minutes. He liked them and had no problem fitting them. Engine sounds great with no Cold piston slap.

[Steve C.]

My engine builder said he wouldn't use Ross pistons, it wasn't that he felt they were 'junk' it's that he had a VERY good relationship with a contact at JE pistons. Most of my pistons were custom to suit the pin height involved and the compression ratio needs.

I've used the same set of early Pontiac 6.625" Carrillo steel rods in three different engine combinations. When it came to my current 505 build I choose Eagle "ESP" H-beam rods w/ bolt upgrade in a 6.8 length rather than Crower Sportsman steel rods, my alternate choice. My choice was more for the lighter weight Eagle rod rather than for cost reasons. And actually my engine builder had a similar relationship at Crower and favored their products quite often.


.

[TheGrudge]

[QUOTE=ponyakr;5414580]Yeah, it's too bad that all Pontiac guys don't have the funds to buy the best of everything.

In a perfect world, we could all just send the Butlers about 30 grand or so and say " spare no expense". [QUOTE]


- I sure don't reside in that world! Truth is my project has taken over 20yrs up to now. One thing is for sure though - I definitely cannot afford to do it twice.
So many unfinished projects get sold as family commitments etc consume time & money but I'm way too stubborn for that. My dad passed my GTO to me (engine/trans stolen - another story) and I intend to pass it down to my children (after hopefully 20 years of street/strip fun). When money runs out I do the more tedious stuff on the car and spend time researching as I'm doing now. My engine builder is an old friend of an old friend who is kind enough and patient enough to build my motor in between bigger/more profitable jobs. He just showed up at my workshop one day, picked up my 455 block and said "you're not in a hurry, are you?" - no sir. Long story short if it takes a little longer to put aside money so be it. He is definitely a coach/advisor to me and I am in awe of the guy's knowledge.When I visited his workshop I learnt more about engine building and machine work over a six pack than in 30 + years of reading magazines/tech articles and 20yrs in the trade. Thanks everyone for your comments & opinions.