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#1
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Deliberate choke point?
Here's my theory. I'm sure I'm not the first to think of this. Maybe it's a known "thing". Maybe it doesn't work.
Through a strange twist of events a 4.25/6.8/4.181 build became 4.50/6.7/4.195. RPM vs longevity has become something I've pondered a lot. Conventional wisdom would suggest that keeping RPM to a safe level would necessitate selecting cam/intake/heads etc matched to the intended operating range ie if you don't want to spin it past say 6000 pick parts that work from 2500-5500 and maybe shift at 5800 to keep it all together. Problem there is of course that 2500-5500 is 067-068 territory and I'm not building 497 cubes to pull a Winnebago. My idea is to use airflow limitations/choke point to make the motor "run out of air" before 6,000rpm thus making peak power earlier (obviously giving up some top end power) but using a much more aggressive cam that would otherwise maybe peak at say 6500. I got to thinking about fast Ponchos in the pre-E head era (or pre Wenzler). 250cfm headed 450-some cid motors deep in the 10's clearly making more than the old rule of thumb HP=Cyl head intake cfm x2 kinda thing. Anyways, as things have turned out I'll be testing this theory first hand in the coming months as I finally get this lump together. I'll post details, but wonder if this is something others have tried/done or if a specific class of racing has led racers down this path before. Fire away, I won't be offended! |
#2
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Contact one of the cam manufacturers and tell them what you want to do, you'll probably end up with a roller with lots of lift but short on duration I imagine.
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#3
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What will the compression ratio be?
What heads will be run? |
#4
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"Running out of air" is not going to miraculously re-make low-end power, which was sacrificed by a too-large intake duration.
The big cam will lose low-end. The "choke point" will just kill the upper-rpm power, the motor will not really notice it until becomes the limiting factor. You'll end up with a large engine that performs like a much smaller, weaker engine. Get a custom cam for sure. A properly chosen cam will extract the most power possible over the rpm range you wish to utilize, and not "tricks" will be needed.
__________________
'73 T/A (clone). Low budget stock headed 8.3:1 455, 222/242 116lsa .443/.435 cam. FAST Sportsman EFI, 315rwhp/385rwtq on 87 octane. 13.12 @103.2, 1.91 60'. '67 Firebird [sold], ; 11.27 @ 119.61, 7.167 @ 96.07, with UD 280/280 (108LSA/ 109 ICL)solid cam. [1.537, 7.233 @93.61, 11.46 @ 115.4 w/ old UD 288/296 108 hydraulic cam] Feb '05 HPP, home-ported "16" D-ports, dished pistons (pump gas only), 3.42 gears, 275/60 DR's, 750DP, T2, full exhaust My webpage http://lnlpd.com/home |
#5
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Thanks for your replys. Motor is almost ready to assemble. Custom cam already ground.
I know that if I posted the specs straight up I'd get responses like "you need more cyl head flow/Northwind/Victor/Dominator" etc. Probably still will. What I'm getting at is that if more airflow/bigger ports etc will raise peaks then less airflow/smaller ports/higher velocity will lower peaks and keep rpm range safer as a byproduct. Stepping up to 4.50 stroke was something that wasn't part of the original plan so rather than re-spec the entire build I've tried to work with what I have, knowing that some more port work & an intake/carb swap down the line won't be major surgery if it comes to it. Goal was always 550hp/550tq/5500-6000 rpm at 467cid. Specs as they stand are: YC 455 block 3 centre program billet caps Spotts windage tray & scraper Butler pro series oil pump 80 psi Scat 4.50 steel crank Manley 6.7 H-beam rods Icon 2618 4.195 slugs 17cc dish 87cc E heads 285cfm / right on 10:1 comp Torker 2 blended approx 1.5" in to Felpro 1233 Carb shop stage 3 4150 vac sec 925cfm no choke horn etc Comp custom solid flat tappet ( card below ) Comp 800-16 lifters w/edm hole Lifter bore brace Comp 1.65:1 gold roller rockers PRW stud girdles MSD ignition |
#6
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Thanks for sharing, will you dyno this?
The cylinder pressure differential will increase horsepower / CFM. |
#7
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Will definitely dyno, yes. Just love a bit of bench racing/like to pretend I understand physics. All will be revealed on dyno day. A trillion calculations have me thinking this thing may make some torque.
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#8
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My pump gas 455 in the 78 TA is about there with an UD HFT 296/304 T2 Holley 850.
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
#9
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Give it lots of cyl head and back up on valve timing.! VE will be better over the whole curve.
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John Marcella Marcella Manifolds Inc. john@marcellamanifolds.net ph. 248-259-6696 |
#10
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Looking at the bottom end parts you are using that thing will be plenty safe to 7000 or more. I wouldn't hesitate to turn up to 6800 and let that be the rpm upper end.
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Come take a ride http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7Y8Awfk2I0 2008, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2019 Central Il Dragway Mod track champion and 2015 IHRA Div 5 Mod champion |
#11
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Thanks for your input guys. If the bottom end is likely to safely/reliably spin up past 6500 then will the T2 let it get there? When I was at 467cid I would have thought so, at 497 I wonder. Will the cam still be pulling at 6500?
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