[yellow1098]

So I’m ordering my heads and intake for my new motor which will be a butler 461 stroker. Shooting for around 650hp...I am currently running a Holley super sniper with only the 4 injectors so I know I will need to at least upgrade to the 8 injector super sniper. I am happy with how the sniper performs in my current 350hp motor but I have been advised on the new motor to step it up to the multiport terminator X. I just wanted to learn the benefits of doing so...I was told it will be a smoother better performing system for my higher hp setup that will see a lot of street driving and once a month track days. Not to mention better clearance for the shaker when I run a nitrous plate. I’m just looking for an education on the difference between the two and how multiport would be a better setup for me...thanks as always!

[steve25]

The multi port set up can greatly reduce fuel wet flow issues that can lead to lower ring and cylinder wall life and less efficient combustion then what could be had.

On the other side of the coin, now you have more injectors that can fail and each cylinder is fully relying on its one injector, on a Intake Plenum mounted set up a failed injector will not make for much of a issue until heavy throttle and or high rpms are in the picture.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by yellow1098

So I’m ordering my heads and intake for my new motor which will be a butler 461 stroker. Shooting for around 650hp...I am currently running a Holley super sniper with only the 4 injectors so I know I will need to at least upgrade to the 8 injector super sniper. I am happy with how the sniper performs in my current 350hp motor but I have been advised on the new motor to step it up to the multiport terminator X. I just wanted to learn the benefits of doing so...I was told it will be a smoother better performing system for my higher hp setup that will see a lot of street driving and once a month track days. Not to mention better clearance for the shaker when I run a nitrous plate. I’m just looking for an education on the difference between the two and how multiport would be a better setup for me...thanks as always!

I'd like to hear how your conversation went with them.

When I was in contact with them, (I'm only interested in the stealth version) but that's basically the same injector and computer setup you're looking at.

I'm making close to 650hp currently and looking to step up to 700-ish. I was told the 4 i100 lbs. injectors wouldn't cut it, which I understand, and I needed 4 120 lbs injectors, which isn't offered in the stealth version, only in the X-flow. He went on to tell me the 8 injector setup would not work on my application so that wasn't an option. I guess their 8 injector system does not have the ability to manage the fuel down to a 650hp level and they are only rated for 800 hp and up.

I hope they told you the same thing, not sure how they could recommend an 8 injector setup for your 650hp application when I was told it wouldn't work. I'm still waiting for them to come out with a stealth version with 4 120 pounders that mimics the X-flow offering.

Not familiar with the multi port terminator setup, that never came up in my conversations with them. I'm only interested in the holley carb looking setup anyway.

[TheGrudge]

Does Terminator X tell you what time it is? Boyeee!!??
Sorry.

[Formula8]

Originally Posted by TheGrudge

Does Terminator X tell you what time it is? Boyeee!!??
Sorry.

Only if you fight the power!

[Steve C.]

Was it Holley Tech that advised you to step it up to the multiport terminator X system ?

If so, were they aware your not dealing with a late model computer controlled engine.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel.../parts/550-500


.

[yellow1098]

Yes the Holley tech and a few others...basically saying what Steve was describing...that since I do a lot of around town driving it would be more efficient on a high hp setup and have better cylinder and ring life? But the more injectors and more parts that can fail seems like a great point.....just trying to figure out what “better efficiency” means from the double the price multiport setup.....they also say better throttle response and street manners runs like a true modern engine would? He also said more tuning ability for AFR and lean and rich settings....idk haha

[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by steve25

The multi port set up can greatly reduce fuel wet flow issues that can lead to lower ring and cylinder wall life and less efficient combustion then what could be had.

On the other side of the coin, now you have more injectors that can fail and each cylinder is fully relying on its one injector, on a Intake Plenum mounted set up a failed injector will not make for much of a issue until heavy throttle and or high rpms are in the picture.

One of the major reasons I've thought about Sniper, FiTech, etc., has been to eliminate those wet flow issues contributing to ring and cylinder wall life. This has me thinking a properly done Qjet may be no worse.

(Apologies to OP for changing subject)

[Scott65]

The Terminator X sounds like it has potential long term growth potential, in case you decide to make more power, or add forced induction etc. I have no experience with the Holley stuff, but I have used throttle body type and mpfi. I prefer the latter, now having tried both.

[darbikrash]

I'd like to add some comments to the Terminator X discussion.

.First, because Holley has so many overlapping products, its easy to get confused as to what is what.

The Holley Terminator X was initially intended to support the LS take-out market. Many people were buying junkyard LS motors, and did not want to deal with the GM ECU, so this product gave the user a new Holley HP ECU, and 3.5" handheld programmer, a main and injector harness for about $1000.

As these were intended for junkyard take-out, nothing else was needed, injectors, throttle body, coils etc, were just reused.

Since the early launch, they now have version that supports conventional early American V8's, such as a Pontiac, also for $1000.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel.../parts/550-936

This kit is full multi-port sequential injection, just like a modern computer controlled V8. It does not include a throttle body, injectors, nor a means to accommodate digital ignition. These are extra cost items. But, while this is never going to be comparable in cost to a throttle body style EFI such as the Sniper series or Terminator Stealth, it does lower the cost substantially to those who prefer MPFI.

It also gives great flexibility on injector size, you just buy whatever (EV1 style) injector size in lbs/hr that is right for your engine and its plug and play There is a huge choice in injector sizes to support virtually any horsepower need.

You then need a throttle body, and there are many to choose from not just Holley, but Accufab, etc. The throttle bodies without injectors are not expensive, and they can be sized to provide the right air flow rating.

As to ignition , the Universal Terminator X supports the Dual Sync distributor, which means you do not need an external reluctor wheel for crank signal, nor a 1X cam timing signal both of which are tricky to retrofit to a Pontiac. In this example, timing is full computer control in the ECU.

You get both of these signals plug and play from the Dual Sync. If you want to go further and upgrade to coil on plug, you can do that too if you buy a Holley LS style ignition harness and the LS type individual plug coils. You can put a MSD blank distributor cap on the Dual Sync, as the plug wires and spark does not come from the distributor anymore if you go this route. This does add a lot of cost, and I doubt you would see any dyno benefit for COP as compared to the standard Dual Sync with conventional single coil. But if you just have to have COP/CNP digital ignition, you can.

So a person with a vintage Pontiac can get full sequential port injection for a lot less money than the previous MPFI sytems, with plug and play installation for crank and cam trigger. We just ordered a Terminator X without the 3.5" handheld for $899, as we just use a laptop for programming and the free Holley software.

[JLMounce]

I would throw out going to the Edelbrock pro-flow 4. You’d need to purchase larger injectors from the base kit and return the small injectors.

I like the pro flow as a good sequential port injection system that fills the gap between the higher end mpfi systems, especially if you’re a novice with efi. You get the benefits and ease of tuning you get with the sniper/FiTech but in an mpfi package.

The throttle body also flows more appropriately for your new setup.

[yellow1098]

So the handheld programmer, a main and injector harness for about $1000? And a terminator x throttle body for $899? Gives you full multiport the can more efficiently handle bigger power and more tunability? Opposed to sniper TBI which I have now that will run out of injector at 650 and not be as good for my motor long term? Sold

[darbikrash]

Not exactly. Terminator X does not come with any type of throttle body, that's extra. You can get a 4bbl style dry throttle body for around $400 which flows 1000 CFm.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel.../parts/112-588

I don't personally like using the 3.5" handheld, I use a laptop and free Holley software which is way more powerful so I order the Terminator X without the handheld for $899. If you want the handheld it is $1000.

You also need to buy 8 injectors and a Dual Sync distributor if you don't have one already.

[Scott65]

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=820018
I started this thread to Chronicle the process. Maybe it will help you piecing together a system. It's really the best way to get exactly what you want, it's just a little more time consuming than ordering bolt on stuff.

[yellow1098]

Ok I’m alittle confused again....so the terminator x is just the set up harness and Ecu all that? It’s not the terminator throttle body? Sorry for the dumb questions

[Formulajones]

It looks to me like you still need to buy quite a few things. Injectors, a throttle body, and of course you're going to need an intake with 8 injector bungs. Whether that means buying one or taking your existing intake somewhere to have bungs welded on, that's assuming you have an aftermarket intake that has bosses for it. Either way some fab work needed and that'll cost.

Least that's what I'm seeing from Holleys description anyway. It's by far a bolt on plug and play deal.

Me personally I'd skip all that and use one of their throttle body fuel injection units and be done with it. Find one that fits your HP goal, plug and play.

[darbikrash]

Originally Posted by yellow1098

Ok I’m alittle confused again....so the terminator x is just the set up harness and Ecu all that? It’s not the terminator throttle body? Sorry for the dumb questions

The Terminator X kit does not come with a throttle body of any kind.

I have both Holley throttle body EFI and Holley MPFI on different cars (both GTOs) , same basic stroked 400 short block. The MPFI car has KRE D port heads and a OF1 roller cam, the throttle body EFI car has Edelbrock round port heads and OF2 roller.

The MPFI car runs noticeably better, it's smoother and has better throttle response and can be tuned much closer. It does not make more power than the throttle body car, mostly due to the head and cam differences.

With todays costs I would say the (Holley) MPFI is at least 2X the cost of a (Holley) throttle body EFI by the time all is said and done.

Said another way I think the throttle body EFI gives you 80%-90% of the benefits of MPFI at 50% of the cost.

And I think you can say this again for a Qjet against a throttle body EFI, the carb gives you 80%-90% of the benefits at 50% of the cost of EFI.

That's hot rodding.

[yellow1098]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

It looks to me like you still need to buy quite a few things. Injectors, a throttle body, and of course you're going to need an intake with 8 injector bungs. Whether that means buying one or taking your existing intake somewhere to have bungs welded on, that's assuming you have an aftermarket intake that has bosses for it. Either way some fab work needed and that'll cost.

Least that's what I'm seeing from Holleys description anyway. It's by far a bolt on plug and play deal.

Me personally I'd skip all that and use one of their throttle body fuel injection units and be done with it. Find one that fits your HP goal, plug and play.

Great info thank you! I agree .....which throttle body efi would you run? The bigger sniper?

[yellow1098]

Originally Posted by darbikrash

The Terminator X kit does not come with a throttle body of any kind.

I have both Holley throttle body EFI and Holley MPFI on different cars (both GTOs) , same basic stroked 400 short block. The MPFI car has KRE D port heads and a OF1 roller cam, the throttle body EFI car has Edelbrock round port heads and OF2 roller.

The MPFI car runs noticeably better, it's smoother and has better throttle response and can be tuned much closer. It does not make more power than the throttle body car, mostly due to the head and cam differences.

With todays costs I would say the (Holley) MPFI is at least 2X the cost of a (Holley) throttle body EFI by the time all is said and done.

Said another way I think the throttle body EFI gives you 80%-90% of the benefits of MPFI at 50% of the cost.

And I think you can say this again for a Qjet against a throttle body EFI, the carb gives you 80%-90% of the benefits at 50% of the cost of EFI.

That's hot rodding.

Hot rodding for sure.....so you would say the MPFI is only slightly better? I do value the throttle response upgrade...I also do have the smaller super sniper to help offset my cost... This is exactly the info I was looking for!

[spink7124]

Are you running timing control on your current engine? If you are currently using the dual sync distributor form Holley that would be one less thing to buy if you decided to step up to the Terminator X. I am currently running the Super Sniper 8 injector setup on a moderate horsepower centrifugal blow through application and love it, I drive the car much more now than I did when I was blowing through a carb.

That said if the universal Terminator X was available at the time I purchased the sniper I would have went that way, more flexability and more room for growth imo. Plus the same tuning interface the snipers use.