THE LOBBY A gathering place. Introductions, sports, showin' off your ride, birthday-anniversary-milestone, achievements, family oriented humor.

          
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 10-09-2019, 02:08 PM
RocktimusPryme's Avatar
RocktimusPryme RocktimusPryme is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Bedford, IN
Posts: 2,165
Default

Ive said for years now, that in their current iteration and charging infrastructure that Teslas are perfect cars for my mother. She lives her life in about a 30 mile radius bubble. Is afraid to drive on the interstate for that matter. So for her, the the idea of needing to make a sudden trip that might be 300 miles one way is a laughable concept. Shes at home every night so simply plugging it in and having an available charge every morning worth 350 miles is probably good for a safety factor of like 8x.

In comparison, a lot of us probably might be shopping Facebook marketplace on the toilet and spot a RAIV intake for cheap the next state over and need to get there before someone else swoops in.


So again, I think the technology has promise. I support the company, and wouldn't rule a commuter model out for myself in the future. But right now, for me its just not there yet.

__________________
1967 Firebird 462 580hp/590ftlbs
1962 Pontiac Catalina Safari Swapped in Turd of an Olds 455
Owner/Creator Catfish Motorsports
https://www.youtube.com/@CatfishMotorsports
  #22  
Old 10-09-2019, 03:36 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,035
Default

The idea of a full electric car, like a Tesla vs a hybrid makes sense to a guy who works on cars like me. Toyota has done a remarkable job building reliable cars including the Prius. But the shear amount of hardware in a hybrid and the potential failures are mind boggling. An all electric vehicle is much simpler in execution and would be easier to diagnose and repair when that becomes necessary. Battery life and range will get to an acceptable level soon and these cars will be a good choice for some people. Choice is the key. If I want or need a gasoline powered vehicle, they should be available.

  #23  
Old 10-09-2019, 04:16 PM
hgerhardt's Avatar
hgerhardt hgerhardt is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: CA
Posts: 654
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirrotica View Post
I don't know if Jim Wangers penned this advertisement, or not, ............I've always thought this was one of the most brilliant pieces of advertising ever...….
He used to tell us that he had a really hard time convincing GM marketing people to actually run that ad. I think this was the first one without a car.

  #24  
Old 10-09-2019, 06:01 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,035
Default

When the Infinity brand first launched, they ran an entire series of ads that did not picture a car and this was for a new brand! They owe a lot to Wangers for his groundbreaking ads of the 1960's. They were brilliant. BTW, Infinity took allot of heat from the automotive press for those ads. Trying to launch a brand without showing them the product. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rIUAuW6vLk

  #25  
Old 10-09-2019, 06:25 PM
The Champ's Avatar
The Champ The Champ is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 2,534
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme View Post
So again, I think the technology has promise. I support the company, and wouldn't rule a commuter model out for myself in the future. But right now, for me its just not there yet.
I realize that electric cars are going to become more common place.

But I just can't support Tesla. Elon Musk is a fraud and a liar.

He took nearly 500,000 deposits on the Model 3 starting back in March of 2016 for a car that was supposed to sell for $35,000. That's $500,000,000 in cash that he took for a car he had no intention of having available for purchase for YEARS!

If you go to Tesla's website rite now and look at pricing for the Model 3, it shows the starting price as $32,815.00*.

If you look for the * below, you'll find this statement:

Quote:
* Costs above include potential incentives and gas savings of $6,175.

Incentives & Gas Savings
Model 3 Standard Plus Rear-Wheel Drive
$38,990
Incentives
- $1,875
Gas Savings
- $4,300
Price after Est. Savings
$32,815
https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#battery

So the lowest price Tesla Model 3 is really $38,990.00. Not everyone qualifies for the full tax credit and gas savings depend on how many miles you drive.

He chooses to use gas savings, but doesn't include the higher cost to insure a Tesla.

How expensive? For a car that he claims to cost $32,815.00....

Quote:
The average Model 3 insurance cost across 150 ZIP codes is $2,814 per year, which is $35 less than the cost of insuring a Porsche 911, according to Gabi Personal Insurance Agency Inc., an online insurance shopping site.

Insurance costs vary from area to area. The Model 3's costs ranged from $1,958 to $3,644 per year. For comparison, in the same 150 ZIP codes the average annual cost was $2,102 to insure a Chevrolet Volt Premier
https://www.autonews.com/article/201...sive-to-insure

My Cadillac ATS4 ($50,000.00 sticker) is only $600.00 per year...

I can pay for a lot of gas for the extra $2200 per year on my insurance. I get close to 30 MPG and have a cruising range of close to 500 miles. At most it takes 5 minutes to get another 500 miles of range....

  #26  
Old 10-09-2019, 06:51 PM
RocktimusPryme's Avatar
RocktimusPryme RocktimusPryme is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Bedford, IN
Posts: 2,165
Default

You are entitled to your opinion but that is a pretty aggressive stance. They are delivering the model 3s (ive seen three in my work parking lots) and that’s in rural Indiana. And even if you don’t count the incentive, the MSRP is only about 10% higher than what was promised.

So while from a definition perspective you could say promising 35k and delivering 39k is fraudulent and false, it’s not exactly snake oil. I’m sure we have all seen muuuuuuch shadier deals.

They are also still not out of the woods in being a new company with new technology. Most companies fail. And they might collapse leaving some people high and dry. But I hope they don’t. And I hope people get their products they were promised. We also know that volume drives down cost. Maybe eventually they hit their target prices.

I’m not saying you don’t have some points, in fact I agree that trying to quote the gas savings in the price is lame. I just think it’s an aggressive stance when I’m sure you could find more deserving outlets for you ire.

I work in military technology. Have spent a fair amount of time deployed. Trust me. There is some outrageous expenditures with tax dollars that it’s usually just to far away for people to notice.

__________________
1967 Firebird 462 580hp/590ftlbs
1962 Pontiac Catalina Safari Swapped in Turd of an Olds 455
Owner/Creator Catfish Motorsports
https://www.youtube.com/@CatfishMotorsports
  #27  
Old 10-09-2019, 07:16 PM
hgerhardt's Avatar
hgerhardt hgerhardt is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: CA
Posts: 654
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
When the Infinity brand first launched, they ran an entire series of ads that did not picture a car and this was for a new brand! They owe a lot to Wangers for his groundbreaking ads of the 1960's. They were brilliant. BTW, Infinity took allot of heat from the automotive press for those ads. Trying to launch a brand without showing them the product. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rIUAuW6vLk
Yes, and Infiniti never really got off the ground probably thanks to those ads. Remember they launched same time as Lexus and Lexus had, what, 10x the sales volume in the early days?

  #28  
Old 10-09-2019, 09:41 PM
The Champ's Avatar
The Champ The Champ is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 2,534
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme View Post
So while from a definition perspective you could say promising 35k and delivering 39k is fraudulent and false, it’s not exactly snake oil. I’m sure we have all seen muuuuuuch shadier deals.
Musk has sold over 200,000 Model 3's and still hasn't delivered a $35,000 car.

I don't know what the average selling price is today, but at the end of the second quarter of this year, this is what Tesla put out in their "Second Quarter Update":

Quote:
Model 3 average selling price (ASP) was stable at approximately $50,000.
Musk has refused to build the $35,000 car. In the retail industry that's known as "Bait and Switch". He took $500,000,000.00 in interest free loans from consumers who wanted a $35,000 car and then wouldn't build it.

Musk was forced to resign as Chairman of the Board and was fined $20,000,000.00 for violating anti-fraud provisions of the federal securities laws last year.

I don't have a problem with Tesla, the company. It's Musk.

My personal prediction is that Tesla will be taken over by a real automobile company (Mercedes, VW, Ford, GM...) and Musk will go play in space (something that he seems to have more interest in).

  #29  
Old 10-09-2019, 09:44 PM
455Grandville's Avatar
455Grandville 455Grandville is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: St Genevieve County
Posts: 1,535
Default

Biggest issue with Tesla from a business point is they’re not making money.

__________________
Two 1975 455 Grandvilles &
'79 455 Trans Am
‘69 Camaro SS 396/375 (owned since ‘88)
‘22 Toyota Sequoia V8
‘23 Lexus LS500 awd
‘95 Ford F-super duty 4wd 7.3 p-stroke
& countless Jeeps & off road vehicles.
  #30  
Old 10-10-2019, 03:04 AM
nas t eh nas t eh is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Posts: 272
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 455Grandville View Post
Biggest issue with Tesla from a business point is they’re not making money.
Yup, going to need a bailout

__________________
73 T/A 455, 4speed
  #31  
Old 10-10-2019, 04:27 AM
OZZIEVILLE 67 2 door's Avatar
OZZIEVILLE 67 2 door OZZIEVILLE 67 2 door is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia,byron bay
Posts: 421
Default

If you want to an educated larrikin Aussie 's opinion on Musk and the EV scam , I like this guys attitude and I hope he does not offend to many,also I hope you understand him.

Because I use Taptalk I can't post links. I miss my PC.
IT'S WORTH A LISTEN
Maybe someone can help
John Cadogan
auto expert
top 6 latest epic Tesla fails.
John L.

Sent from my SM-T585 using Tapatalk

__________________
  #32  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:37 AM
The Champ's Avatar
The Champ The Champ is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 2,534
Default

Glad to oblige...

Link to video about the "electric Jesus"...

https://youtu.be/SCdgZGZa3IU

The Following User Says Thank You to The Champ For This Useful Post:
  #33  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:01 AM
Tenney Tenney is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 283
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirrotica View Post
I don't know if Jim Wangers penned this advertisement, or not, since I was a young kid, and read it (64 or 65) I have always loved this bit of advertising, above all other Pontiac advertisements.:
Dig this one, too! Classic!! Written by Roger Proulx.

Tesla-wise, daughter has a Model 3 Performance and it's an absolute riot.

  #34  
Old 10-11-2019, 04:55 AM
OZZIEVILLE 67 2 door's Avatar
OZZIEVILLE 67 2 door OZZIEVILLE 67 2 door is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia,byron bay
Posts: 421
Default

Thanks Champ

Sent from my SM-T585 using Tapatalk

__________________
  #35  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:38 AM
einstein's Avatar
einstein einstein is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: in the middle of the Real America
Posts: 1,061
Default

Electric vehicles have been the "next big thing" for about 100 years.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20191011_093547.jpg
Views:	187
Size:	63.4 KB
ID:	521990  

  #36  
Old 10-11-2019, 12:18 PM
necdb3's Avatar
necdb3 necdb3 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Mt. Laurel NJ, now Melbourne, FL
Posts: 1,369
Default

^That's California for yah!

  #37  
Old 10-16-2019, 10:51 AM
alsalp alsalp is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 146
Default

You cheated on your Pontiac with some hussy?

  #38  
Old 11-04-2019, 05:13 PM
428convertib 428convertib is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Champ View Post
Musk has refused to build the $35,000 car.
That's your extra cynical interpretation. I think he's discovered he CAN'T build a $35K car. At least not yet.

Keep in mind nobody has been ripped off. Depositors can get their money back. Investors can sell their stock.

  #39  
Old 11-04-2019, 05:16 PM
428convertib 428convertib is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 455Grandville View Post
Biggest issue with Tesla from a business point is they’re not making money.
Third quarter they just announced a profit. They are roller coastering and might not make it out of a future valley. Or they might. It's not all doom/gloom.

  #40  
Old 11-05-2019, 11:08 AM
The Champ's Avatar
The Champ The Champ is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 2,534
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 428convertib View Post
That's your extra cynical interpretation. I think he's discovered he CAN'T build a $35K car. At least not yet.
But this is what he promised back in 2016:

Quote:
When the Model 3 was finally unveiled 10 years later, in March 2016, Tesla promised that it would start at $35,000. It built up a preorder list of over 400,000 customers based, at least in part, on that promise. Those customers each put down a $1,000, too, giving Tesla some $400 million in cash to help buoy its business without having to sell equity in the company or raise money that would add to the company’s expanding debt.
Musk was promoting the $35,000 car with a $7500 tax credit for a net of $27,500.

Because he couldn't build the $35,000 car he promised (he needed to be able to hit volume levels that he couldn't achieve - and still hasn't), he built $60,000 cars with tons of highly marked up options to make a profit. The $60,000 buyer, who didn't need a $7500 tax credit, is the buyer that was able to take advantage of the US taxpayer.

The Tesla tax credit disappears in less than 2 months. That $35,000 Tesla customer will never get a $7500 tax credit.

This is a classic example of bait and switch. Musk is a modern day PT Barnum - a sucker is born every minute....

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:36 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017