[60sstuff]

Little known fact.

The first design 1965 Metal Shield (finger guard) was used in just the “first quarter of the 65 build, (9A, 10A, 11A) are the samples I have on file. Also the early 65 test cars show this first design.

The RH rear corner lip was “Flat”.

This would be for both style radiator cap holes. The 2bbl. and 4bbl. version and the Tri-power version.

Starting in late Nov. build, a design change was made. The RH rear corner lip was “Turned Down”. This carried through the 1967 year.

The thought I have was to prevent the sharp edge being close to the 65 upper radiator hose.

I wonder how many show judges are aware of this detail on early builds.

PS, if anyone has a nice original paint early design, I would be interested.

Thanks, Chris.

[694.1]

Nah... bet the bent one was dropped

[60sstuff]

Originally Posted by 694.1

Nah... bet the bent was dropped

Huh ?

[8LUG]

Good info

[Old Goat Racer]

Originally Posted by 694.1

Nah... bet the bent one was dropped

From no less than the Empire State Building.

[Old Goat Racer]

An engineering correction ? Good call.

[Old Goat Racer]

Then I had to go look at my repop.
It was dropped too.

[60sstuff]

Just needed to look “up” for this early issue Safety Catch design.

It’s called a “STOP”, Hood Safety Catch.

1964 did not have this STOP, nor did the early 65.
Somewhere around the first quarter plus of the 65 build, Pontiac started installing this component.
It’s seen on the last three quarters of 65 build through 66/67 builds.

Learn something new again.

1) 1964
2) my early 65
3) later build 65
Next, MPC illustration #67.

Chris.

[brut4s]

Mine was dropped too!

[dld]

60sstuff

had a point taken at GTOAA convention for missing hardware. My car is a 12c BAL car

[dld]

here is a pic of my car with the bent edge on fan finger guard. this supports your info. on hose interference

[60sstuff]

Originally Posted by dld

60sstuff

had a point taken at GTOAA convention for missing hardware. My car is a 12c BAL car

Don,

Just goes to show us that the judges make “mistakes”.

Your 65 is early enough that it did not have that “STOP” installed yet.
Therefore, you should not have lost a point!

There are about 5 to 6 items under the hood of an early 65 that differ from the later built 65’s.
All early test car articles, plus early Survivors will support this.

Judges do not know of these facts.

Chris.

[Tom Vaught]

"Judges" do their best but most were not even born or were in Kindergarten when the cars were first built and sold.

Tom V.

[60sstuff]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

"Judges" do their best but most were not even born or were in Kindergarten when the cars were first built and sold.

Tom V.

Tom,

Yes, I agree the “judges” do their best, and I don’t envy them.
It has nothing to do with when they were born.

The National events such as GTOAA have been going on for years and it would be nice to see a little more research on the correct factory components so guys like Don do not lose points for having “what is correct” on his car.

Chris.

[dld]

Having my car at three GTOAA conventions and this year at POIC . I think the judging is overall great. There very tuned in to these cars. more so GTOAA . for good reason. there teams only do specific years 64 65 ..66 67 ..ect. and I have seen the same judges time after time . Scott Tiemann and his team have judged my car all three years

I really want them to be critical. I'm always willing to learn and make car better

problem is you don't see the score sheet unless judge points out the reason for his score. but for the most part they will listen to objection with a willingness to learn. especially if you do not get all crazy . i will say they are very thorough and most have been doing it for years. but unless you are on this forum 24-7 its tough to be a subject matter expert on these 64-65 years and the differences in hardware used along with running changes made through the year in four different assembly plants.



also as your car gets to a higher grade they look even harder it seems . but its all good . I would encourage anyone to build a car and have it judged

Don

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by dld

Having my car at three GTOAA conventions and this year at POIC . I think the judging is overall great. There very tuned in to these cars. more so GTOAA . for good reason. there teams only do specific years 64 65 ..66 67 ..ect. and I have seen the same judges time after time . Scott Tiemann and his team have judged my car all three years

I really want them to be critical. I'm always willing to learn and make car better

problem is you don't see the score sheet unless judge points out the reason for his score. but for the most part they will listen to objection with a willingness to learn. especially if you do not get all crazy . i will say they are very thorough and most have been doing it for years. but unless you are on this forum 24-7 its tough to be a subject matter expert on these 64-65 years and the differences in hardware used along with running changes made through the year in four different assembly plants.



also as your car gets to a higher grade they look even harder it seems . but its all good . I would encourage anyone to build a car and have it judged

Don

And where did Scott Tiemann get his original knowledge from?
His dad bought a 1965 GTO which Scott still has.
He became an expert on the way the plant that built his dad"s 65 GTO put it together.

That does not necessarily make him an expert on the way that the other plants did their stuff except by looking at other original examples from those plants for a given production date. He has looked at a lot of other Plant builty cars (but not every one).
He is a very sharp GTO Guy and Judge but he is not the source for all 64-65 GTO knowledge. No one ever is.

I have personally known him for many years, been to his shop many times on my way across the state, etc.

Just saying. Not starting a urination contest. Judges can make mistakes, as was pointed out in earlier posts.
And it does have to do with how old they are. Keith Seymore actually worked in the Plants for many years, His Dad raced a Royal GTO campaigned out of Royal's dealership. He does not claim to be the wealth of all GTO knowledge though.

Tom V.