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#21
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I upgraded to a dual 1" Rodney Red radiator and it ran better but I would still have to pull over if stuck in traffic for more than 30 minutes. Next upgrade was a dual 1 1/4" unit from a no name company in Michigan. $800 plus a very expensive pair of Spal fans and a custom fan shroud and Problem solved! Last year just to be safe, we installed our SD/HO radiator kit just to see how it stacked up to my previous $1500 set up. Same exact results. 190 all day long. I can sit in traffic for 2 hours and not get any hotter.
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--------------------------- Fool Around, Get Hurt, Don't come Crying to me. |
#22
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i'm curious what the specs of your 462 are? & why its so hard to cool? unless this is a ragged edge, ultra high compression, hard block filled, all out race engine, im confused why it runs so hot. i'm sure you have looked into the other common factors that could make it run that hot. i recall some details of your engine & it sounds like a popular combo of pretty basic parts, it should not be so difficult to keep cool. for comparison, i have a .060 400 block stroker 467, 10.75:1 with e-heads & old faithfull cam. cliff built q-jet & ~3500 continental converter. it runs so cool its hard to get to temp in 60-70* weather, & runs right at the 180 t-stat rating in 85-90 degree temps, might creep to 190... at idle for prolonged times while tuning, city stop & go, highway, drag racing, etc. & i use one of those "marketing gimmick" small 3 row champions! with a worn out stock clutch fan! this engine would probably cool just as well with a 4 row copper/brass radiator. im confused why many people with similar & even higher power engines dont have overheating issues, yet others with similar or less power engines do & need to buy these huge radiators with dual electric spahl fans. i realize all engines/cars are different, but its interesting why some have such a hard time with cooling pretty basic engines & some don't. as for overheating with original copper radiators- back in the 90's, i had a 78 t/a with a mild 455, 9.5:1 6x-4 heads, comp 280 magnum cam & 3.90 gears. i was a broke teenager & had very little tuning knowledge, that car had a crappy old stock 4 row that had leaked 2 or 3 times & had solder repairs on many of the rows & all kinds of stop leak dumped into it... it was a daily driver & got raced & beat on daily & nightly... never had any overheating issues with stock clutch fan & a broken up shroud. & this was before i knew about water pump plate clearance & used a cheap no name water pump. cooling theses cars should not be such a problem, seems most the cars i read about overheating are gto's & 1st gen firebrds or other big cars... i wonder if their radiators are not as good/big of a ddesign as 2nd gen firebirds? ive owned & built quite a few pontiac engines 2nd gen firebirds, but am just an amateur backyard mechanic & have never had the troubles i read about here. i am knocking on wood though! |
#23
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__________________
--------------------------- Fool Around, Get Hurt, Don't come Crying to me. |
#24
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I installed a conventional brass/copper Desert Cooler from Ames in my '67 GTO (automatic w/ air so 17-1/2" height) back in 2000, it's still in the car and working fine. I do not know that I have everything optimized for temperature (timing, water pump, etc.) but it will get up to about 205 - 210 in hot weather if idling for extended periods or driving at freeway speeds.
Based on the thread I decided to look at my old receipt - same part number sold in the Ames catalog today, P119AM. In 2000 I paid $225.00 plus $22.00 shipping. In the current Ames catalog the same P119AM radiator is $519.00 with $25.00 oversize charge in addition to standard shipping. Prices have gone up in 19 years! |
#25
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Kind of meaningless I guess .... but this copper recored, four core OEM unit I have setup on the test stand with my newly rebuilt engine has a phenomenal temperature drop from inlet to outlet ... that's with no shroud and the fan about 4" away from the radiator. With an inlet temp about 160 the outlet is almost cool to the touch.
Looking down the filler neck the difference between between "before" and "after" the recore was astounding .... easily twice or three times the flow coming out of the tubes. Admittedly it's probably more expensive to copper recore an original unit than it is to buy a new aluminum piece (cost me about $530) but the recored originals do work tremendously ... so just saying, I think probably 90+% of the people comparing OEM to aftermarket aluminum are comparing a 40 year old radiator to a new one .... not really a fair comparison. |
#26
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Which Radiator
Dataway, you're loading your engine very little (water pump, alternator, fan, transmission in neutral or park and friction) on test stand therefore creating very little heat. When you get engine installed in car with AC condenser, front nose, and possibly auxiliary transmission cooler, in front of radiator restricting airflow, take your car out for a run in 110, 115 degree temperatures with AC on for an hour or so run at 70 mph plus and set in stop and go traffic in 95, 100 degree heat for hour or so then come back and report on the phenomenal performance of your OEM style 4 core radiator. Maybe yours will be fine but under such conditions my OEM style wouldn't hack it had to go to 2 core aluminum.
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#27
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Oh I realize it's not a great test .. that's why I started the post with "King of meaningless I guess" .... and why I was talking about the delta T across the radiator, and not about engine temps.
However the OEM radiators did just fine with mostly stock engines in desert heat for many years when they were new. People were not buying GTOs in Arizona in 1968 and having them promptly overheat the first time they drove them across the desert. They worked fine for years ... because they had nice new four core copper radiators. Aluminum radiators are great .... but I'd have to see a head to head test against a newly recored original before I'd be confident they are that much superior to the originals. And basically no one ever does that, they compare them to a 40 year old radiator that was "cleaned out" or "looks good" etc. Not many people spending the money to recore and original just to test it against an new aluminum unit. My guess is the new large 2 core aluminum units are probably 10-15% more efficient than the OEM copper units, which is probably a big help with a high HP engine. With the same amount of frontal area as an OEM unit and the same flow rate from the pump, it comes down to transfer efficiency ... only so much to be gained there from the different materials and the tube/fin structure. |
#28
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I bought 2 Cold Case radiators last week. One for the 421 in my wife's 65 GTO and a 26" unit to replace the "rode hard and put up wet" (not repaired properly) original 26" unit in my 440 6bbl 70 Roadrunner. I haven't installed either one, but I am fully confident in their ability. One of the reasons why I got one for each car is that we just got Vintage Air AC systems and we needed to upgrade.
We got Wraptor serpentine systems for both cars too. I believe that they are going to look and work great, and we will get a LOT more enjoyment from our cars since the majority of the car show/race/event season occurs between March and October, and most of those months are BRUTALLY hot and humid here in the deep South. The pricing for forum members and free shipping is GREATLY appreciated too! |
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