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#1
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Bellhousing alignment experience
What is the experience out there with production bellhousings on production blocks? I have a '67 GTO and new trans requires +/- .005" or .010" TIR Concentricity and +/- .001" or .002" TIR Parallelism.
Luckily body is off frame so things are easy to get at. Robbmc adjustable dowels recommended and how hard to get production dowels out? Thanks for your help. |
#2
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We just put in a TKO-600 in a friends 67 GTO using a stock bellhousing two weeks ago. The aluminum varied by several thousandths as we went around with the dial indicator and had us worried where it was going to end up. Funny thing was any two opposing sides had the same runout so it ended up at 0-0, .004-.004, .010-.010, etc. So the hole was centered but just wasn't that great of a circle. We were able to just bolt the trans up and run it. Only stock one I've checked because we usually go right to a scatter-shield, and we almost always end up tweaking those to bring them into center. I would say that every one needs to be checked because you just don't know what you are going to find.
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Mick Batson 1967 original owner Tyro Blue/black top 4-speed HO GTO with all the original parts stored safely away -- 1965 2+2 survivor AC auto -- 1965 Catalina Safari Wagon in progress. |
#3
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Forgot to comment about the dowel pins. Those are usually tough suckers to get out and we haven't had much luck with just twisting with Vicegrips. If you search back through the achieves you will find several different methods of removal. I prefer drilling and tapping threads about a 1/2" deep for 3/8" all-thread. slip a 3/4" pipe nipple over the down and slide on a small piece of bar stock over the all-thread and tighten down with a nut until the dowel pulls out.
If the housing is only off a few thousands we usually just egg shape the dowel pin holes until we get things centered up. Nothing has ever moved once we have torqued down the bell housing bolts, but I would suspect not everyone is happy with the simplest solution. On steel housings we have also tack welded washers to the scatter-shield around the dowels after things are centered in place which locks in the new adjustment. I hate offset dowels because of trying to move them around until the magic location is found.
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Mick Batson 1967 original owner Tyro Blue/black top 4-speed HO GTO with all the original parts stored safely away -- 1965 2+2 survivor AC auto -- 1965 Catalina Safari Wagon in progress. |
#4
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I use this tool: Browel Bell-housing Alignment Tool
Very Easy to use. Made by the Browel Racing Scatter-shield people. Pictures are from a Corvette Site. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#5
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Thanks fellows - good info.
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#6
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In my 50 or so years of racing I found stock Bell housings are usually never off center. Scatter shields on the other hand have to be centered. I prefer centering and then welding bushings or washers to hold the placement.
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1979 Trans Am WS-6 .030 455 zero decked flat pistons 96 heads with SS valves 041 cam with Rhoads lifters 1.65 rockers RPM rods 800 Cliffs Q Jet on Holley Street Dominator ST-10 4 speed (3.42 first) w 2.73 rear gear __________________________________________________ _______________________________ 469th TFS Korat Thailand 1968-69 F-4E Muzzle 2 |
#7
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I used a QuickTime on mine and used the RobbMc offsets to get it aligned to spec.I pulled the oems with a homemade puller (socket/allthread/washer) after I drilled and tapped the oem dowels and did it all while laying under the car. Yours will be easy peasy.
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frittering and wasting the hours in an off hand way.... 1969 GTO, 455ci, 230/236 Pontiac Dude's "Butcher Special" Comp hyd roller cam with Crower HIPPO solid roller lifters, Q-jet, Edelbrock P4B-QJ, Doug's headers, ported 6X-8 (97cc) heads, TKO600, 3.73 geared Eaton Tru-Trac 8.5", hydroboost, rear disc brakes......and my greatest mechanical feat....a new heater core. |
#8
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Ive used a propane torch to locally heat up the block around the hole, and get the pin out with clip joint pliers with a turning motion. And to go back in, some more propane torch and have the pin to be installed chilled overnight in the freezer.
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Clutch Guys Matter _______________________________________ 53 Studebaker, 400P/th400/9" 64 F-85 72 4-4-2 Mondello's VO Twister II 84 Hurst/Olds #2449 87 Cutlass Salon 54 Olds 88 sedan |
#9
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I wobbed out the holes on a Lakewood, and also on a McLeod, but have heard the QuickTime ones are pretty close.
I made marks with a punch in a couple spots so if I have to remove it, I can put it back. .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#10
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I have always checked factory bell housings and never had one out of spec. My recommendation would be to try a 2nd bell housing if your's is out prior to messing with the dowels.
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Redline Design |
#11
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The factory spec isn't as tight as what the TKOs and other newer trans' require is the issue.
EDIT: Plus you don't really want to run a non-SFI bell with power upgrades or repeated abuse. .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#12
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All you have to see is ONE Clutch Explosion, (in my experience it was a Camaro), that had a cast iron flywheel explode and take out the whole right side of the dash and floorboards on the Camaro, and you "get religion" and put the good stuff in your vehicle.
Some of the chunks laying on the ground, 30 minutes after the explosion, were too hot to handle 30 minutes later. Have told this story many times here. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#13
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Guy a little older than us was one of the street racers I hung with when I was in high school/college with my Impala. He worked as a machinist at Texas Instruments. In the long parking lot drive there side stepped the clutch in his 455 powered 65 GTO and grenaded one. Looked like an Uzi got hold of the hood, firewall and floorboard-and his foot! I already had a scattershield on my 409 Impala as I had seen a couple at the track.
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
#14
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Tom V. ... 30 mins later to hot to handle would suggest a slipping clutch thus super heating of the face quickly and most likely causing fractures from rapid uneven expansion
That combined with elevated RPMs will pop a cast iron flywheel
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A man who falls for everything stands for nothing. |
#15
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The guy who tried to pick up one of the larger chunks of the flywheel, (about a 3" slice of "pie") burned his hand bad enough that he had to go see the track ambulance crew.
No doubt that you are spot on with your thoughts on the failure. There were heat cracks all over the surface of the pieces I looked at. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#16
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Thanks fellas for all of your experiences.
Matt |
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