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Old 10-13-2019, 01:53 PM
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ponyakr ponyakr is offline
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Default Spark Plug Questions

Gonna buy some new plugs for my Super Low Budget 455 bracket engine. Has 6x-8 heads.

After I had a Champion plug come apart at a race, I always used Accel plugs, in all our race cars. Never had another plug problem. But, Accel plugs are now above my budget. And besides that, I don't know if they are still good quality or not.

It has Autolite #26 plugs in it now.

Have been reading a lot of online plug info. Seems that I don't need resistor plugs, since I won't have a radio or any electronic gizmos that would be affected by non-resistor plugs.

Lots of guys like NGK plugs. And, the non-resistor plugs I'm considering are only a couple of bucks each.

I'm considering the R5673 or R5674 series plugs. Looks like the R5674's are projected tips, & the R5673's are not.

(1) Is there some reason why I should use projected tip plugs, for my app ?

(2) Advantages & disadvantages of each type.

Considering a #6 or #7 heat range.

(1) What would likely be the best NGK heat range, for my app ?

(2) Which heat range would be less likely to foul, with lots of in-shop starting & tuning, or would it make a difference ?

Any other $2 non-resistor plugs out there that are better than these NGK's ?

Not interested in any fancy, high dollar plugs. But, help with these specific questions would be appreciated.

PS: Please don't tell me to do a search. Almost every topic here has been discussed MANY times. We all like current info & fresh discussions, REGARDLESS of how many times the subject has been covered before.

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Old 10-13-2019, 02:07 PM
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Find AC DELCO r44's or r45's

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Old 10-13-2019, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ta man View Post
Find AC DELCO r44's or r45's
So, what would be the part numbers for NON-resistor AC's ?

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Old 10-13-2019, 02:50 PM
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44S or 45S
The 'R' means resistor



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Old 10-13-2019, 03:06 PM
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Those NGK's you posted are too long threads?

Something like R5670-5 would be the short threads I think.



I also liked the projected tip plugs for the heads.


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Old 10-13-2019, 04:13 PM
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Interesting tid bit.....

Market Share in the US
The companies holding the largest market share in the Spark Plug Manufacturing industry include DENSO Corporation and NGK Spark Plugs (USA) Inc.


.

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Old 10-13-2019, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnta1 View Post
44S or 45S
The 'R' means resistor


I think a 44TS or 45TS would be the tapered seat plugs I'd need. Did a search for 'em. Apparently they are no longer made. All I found were some NOS on Ebay, & a few singles left at Rock auto. When you Google those numbers, what you get mostly are links to R44TS or R45TS, resistor plugs.

https://www.ebay.com/p/1825005986?ii...BoCBu8QAvD_BwE

OK, I think the R in the NGK part numbers means Race. At least the one's I posted are non-resistor.

Also found that the heat range numbers are backwards. Higher NGK numbers are cooler, lower numbers are hotter. According to this first site, the heat range of Autolite plugs is hard to compare with other brands.

https://www.ngk.com/learning-center/...nversion-chart

https://www.briskusa.com/spark_plug_...at_range_chart

https://www.sparkplugs.com/learning-...or-hotter-plug

https://www.dragzine.com/tech-storie...-from-opinion/


Last edited by ponyakr; 10-13-2019 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnta1 View Post
Those NGK's you posted are too long threads?

Something like R5670-5 would be the short threads I think.



I also liked the projected tip plugs for the heads.

Those are gasket seat plugs. As mentioned, I have 6x-8 heads, which require the 14mm tapered seat plugs.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ngk-2298/

Here are the Autolite #26 plugs that were in the engine when I got it. They are 14mm, tapered seat, .460 reach, projected tip, resistor, heat range 6.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...xoCU9kQAvD_BwE

What would be the advantage/disadvantage of projected tips, in my app ?


Last edited by ponyakr; 10-13-2019 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:46 PM
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The 'R' I was referring to was for the AC plugs which you said was R44/R45.
The reach is 3/8" for the 6x (all stock heads) I believe.

The .460" reach is for the Ehead type of heads.
I know the 6X uses tapered seats, but not sure what the NGK plugs nomenclature is.

BTW the AC plug would be a 44TS or 45TS for non-resistor tapered seat plug.
(the 'T' is for tapered)


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Old 10-13-2019, 04:58 PM
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Spark plug Manufacturer's Numbering Systems

https://www.sparkplugs.com/learning-...bering-systems


Years ago, most vehicle manufacturers used only one brand of spark plugs in their engines:

AC Delco in GM engines
Motorcraft or Autolite in Ford engines
Champion in Chrysler engines
Bosch in European makes
NGK or DENSO in Asian makes



In most cases the vehicle manufacturer either owned the spark plug supplier, or had a long historical relationship with that supplier. But globilization and competition has changed that once-cozy relationship. Today, you may find some GM or Ford engines factory-equipped with Bosch spark plugs, Mazda engines equipped with Motorcraft spark plugs, Chrysler engines equipped with NGK or DENSO spark plugs, and so on. Most late model Saturn engines use NGK spark plugs. Kia and Hyundai may come factory-equipped with either NGK or Champion spark plugs. Some vehicle manufacturers still rely on a single spark plug supplier, but most use a mix of suppliers, even for the same engine.

Now it's driven by marketing and consumer OPINIONS !


.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE

Last edited by Steve C.; 10-13-2019 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 10-13-2019, 05:00 PM
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NGK cross-referenced plug for the 6X head:


UR4



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Old 10-13-2019, 05:14 PM
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"The 'R' I was referring to was for the AC plugs which you said was R44/R45..."

That was "ta man" that posted the the R44/R45 numbers.

"...The reach is 3/8" for the 6x (all stock heads) I believe.

The .460" reach is for the Ehead type of heads..."

Well, I suppose you could be correct. BUT, I've been lookin up plug info for 2 days. The most popular reach is .460.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/...tOrder=Default

Butler shows that the E-heads require 3/4" reach plugs.

https://butlerperformance.com/c-1291...num-heads.html

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Old 10-13-2019, 05:16 PM
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Popular and correct is probably not the same?

I would say the aluminum heads are very popular, not so much the old cast iron heads.



Look at the plug I posted for the NGK, it has the 3/8" thread length.


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Old 10-13-2019, 05:22 PM
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An extended tip plug will probably run slightly cleaner in an old carbureted engine. Slightly more of the spark kernel will be exposed to the mixture giving you a cleaner insulator, especially in prolonged idle, staging situations. No reason not to use them. Everyone has their favorite brand, and anecdotal reasons why one brand is junk and another is God's answer to spark ignition. The Champion plug that "came apart" in your engine is the same Champion Spark Plug Company that has made ALL the ACCEL spark plugs since the 1960's. So anyone can have some defects. There is allot of love for AC branded plugs on this board, and I can understand that since they are OE GM. They have a high defect rate of the center insulator being crooked in the shell. I find about 10% of them having the insulator and center electrode so crooked, you have to bend the ground electrode over a significant amount to line them up. The NGK spec'd above is a pretty hot plug. Is there a problem with the Autolite 26's in the engine. How do they look?

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Old 10-13-2019, 05:24 PM
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"...Popular and correct is probably not the same?

I would say the aluminum heads are very popular, not so much the old cast iron heads..."

I am in no way trying to start an argument. I used the word "popular" in reference to plugs that are for Pontiac iron heads, such as the 6X.

Again, Butler shows that the E-heads require 3/4" reach plugs. I don't know if that's true. I've never bought plugs for alum heads.

https://butlerperformance.com/c-1291...num-heads.html

Anyhow, I want some non-resistor, 14mm, tapered seat, plugs, with the correct reach, tip, & heat range for my app. I cannot find any of those in the AC brand. Lots of guys like NGK plugs. So, I think some of the NGK plugs I mentioned will work. Now I suppose I mostly need to know if I should go with the projected tip R5674, or the R5673. And what heat range do I need ? Five? Six ? Seven ? or ?


Last edited by ponyakr; 10-13-2019 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 10-13-2019, 05:47 PM
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You are correct.
I looked up my Ehead plug and it is .750"

The tapered seat plugs must be measured differently than the earlier gasketed plug which are 3/8" (.375").

The pics most showed for the .460" thread length were the longer .750". Must be using generic pics.


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Old 10-13-2019, 06:41 PM
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my read on crooked AC Delco Plugs are those were hecho en mehico

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Old 10-13-2019, 07:17 PM
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Working in a various GM dealerships over the years I've seen plenty of defective brand new AC plugs. And yes 2 brand new ones that the ceramic blew out as soon as the engine was fired up. One hit a cement block wall and took a good size nick out of the block.

I've always used Champion plugs because Milt Schornack used them at Royal for the Bobcat tune. They've worked really well for me, but just as any other brand, QC is now probably crap too.

My fathers 63 Bonneville used to always foul #6 plug with ACs, after switching to Champion it never fouled out that plug for years after that until the car got scrapped in 1972, the plug never fouled again.

I did a tune up in a Mazda piston engine back in the late 70s and had 2 brand new dead champion plugs, that was the only time I had a defective Champion plug in many years of installing them. As Mike said they all screw up at some point.

People have reasons for brand preference, those are my reasons.

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Old 10-13-2019, 07:39 PM
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So, if I go with NGK non-resistor plugs, should I get projected tips ?

And what heat range ?

Hey, these are all the same price, so I'd like to buy the best ones for my app, the first time.

One online article said that a rule of thumb, for slightly modified engines, is to go 1 heat range colder. So, I assume most 6X head cars came with R45TS type plugs, maybe ? If so, I assume that R44TS plugs would be one step colder. So, what NGK heat range would equal the heat range of an AC R44TS ?


Last edited by ponyakr; 10-13-2019 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 10-14-2019, 11:24 AM
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Well, I suppose the word I'd use to describe my reaction to the response, or lack of it, that I've gotten from my questions on this thread is "surprised".

There are lots of guys here who go into GREAT detail, about many very technical subjects.

But, for the answers to my main questions, I'm hearing "crickets".

So, let me ask some different questions.

(1) Has anybody here run a strip only Pontiac powered bracket car, which had the later iron heads, such as 4X, 5C, or 6X ?

(2) Of those who have, what brand & number plugs did you run ?

(3) Did you ever change to a different brand, type, or heat range, to see if there was a performance difference ?

(4) Did you ever try non-resistor plugs ?

(5) Did you ever try plugs with non-projected tips ?

(6) Does anybody here know of any online articles, showing dyno or strip results comparing different types of plugs ?

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