[1oldgoat]

Originally Posted by brians

That is why I asked him if he was sure. My car had two sets with it when I got it - a closed set and a set that sure looked perfect open. Openings are very straight and clean. The car only had 22K miles on it when I got it. The open scoops were in the hood and the system was in the trunk. The pans could have passed for nos.

Now I found out why. After they installed the SR engine he removed the system and installed dual quads on the car. There is much more to the story but he fell on some hard times and the car got repo'd late 1970. The pans were in the trunk at the time and must have always stayed there.

That is so cool! If they were factory open scoops, they likely would have had their own part number. I never thought to look. I have a September 68 dated parts manual, I will check for a 68 open scoop part number.

Sounds like a great car!

[nmoreilly]

Originally Posted by brians

Had one of the best conversations I’ve ever had yesterday.
Tracked down by pure accident thru Facebook, the original owner of my RA2 GTO.

I’ll summarizing and keep it short


Early 68, he ordered a Hemi Charger as a birthday present to himself as it was supposed to be the best out there. It came in in May 68, but when he went to take possession, the manager refused his 66 Tempest trade in as it had been modified. The gave him a short time to sell it but did not happen. So third week of May, he walked into a little Pontiac dealership in Alliance Ohio to talk to them about what Pontiac had to offer and would they take the trade in. The dealership owner sat him down and showed him literature about this new top HP package that just came available. Prior to that, he never heard of it. He sat down and checked off options on a GTO.

About 5 weeks later, he is driving down the road and sees a car transport with a single green 68 GTO. He turns around and follows it to the dealership. He grabs the dealership owner and says we are going for a ride. By third gear, the dealership owner said that is enough and tells him to go back and so they can prep it and install the RA system.

He took it back and drove it himself into the service center (it was just 2 bays). He stood there while they installed the system. One side note, he stated the 2nd set of scoops were in the trunk. They were open and already painted Verdoro Green. I asked if he was sure they were open and he said yes, he stood there when they opened the trunk, cut the hood and installed them.

And I also found out about the original engine. The RA2 engine broke a valve a few months later and it destroyed everything. They replaced the entire engine under warranty.

Great story !! was it the blue car (Alpine Blue I think) that was on FB over last couple of days ?

[brians]

Originally Posted by nmoreilly

Great story !! was it the blue car (Alpine Blue I think) that was on FB over last couple of days ?

Yep - as soon as he said he ordered one from Orwig motors, I knew there could only be one so I sent him a message asking more about his car and when he listed the options he ordered I was convinced so asked for his number.

Great guy to talk to and he had some really good stories of that time and filled in a bunch of mysteries of the car. I told him that I plan on calling every month or so just to hear more and if he thought of any great stories, call me.

Sometimes the history of these cars are even better then the cars themselves.

[nmoreilly]

Originally Posted by brians

Had one of the best conversations I’ve ever had yesterday.
Tracked down by pure accident thru Facebook, the original owner of my RA2 GTO.

I’ll summarizing and keep it short


Early 68, he ordered a Hemi Charger as a birthday present to himself as it was supposed to be the best out there. It came in in May 68, but when he went to take possession, the manager refused his 66 Tempest trade in as it had been modified. The gave him a short time to sell it but did not happen. So third week of May, he walked into a little Pontiac dealership in Alliance Ohio to talk to them about what Pontiac had to offer and would they take the trade in. The dealership owner sat him down and showed him literature about this new top HP package that just came available. Prior to that, he never heard of it. He sat down and checked off options on a GTO.

About 5 weeks later, he is driving down the road and sees a car transport with a single green 68 GTO. He turns around and follows it to the dealership. He grabs the dealership owner and says we are going for a ride. By third gear, the dealership owner said that is enough and tells him to go back and so they can prep it and install the RA system.

He took it back and drove it himself into the service center (it was just 2 bays). He stood there while they installed the system. One side note, he stated the 2nd set of scoops were in the trunk. They were open and already painted Verdoro Green. I asked if he was sure they were open and he said yes, he stood there when they opened the trunk, cut the hood and installed them.

And I also found out about the original engine. The RA2 engine broke a valve a few months later and it destroyed everything. They replaced the entire engine under warranty.

Originally Posted by brians

Yep - as soon as he said he ordered one from Orwig motors, I knew there could only be one so I sent him a message asking more about his car and when he listed the options he ordered I was convinced so asked for his number.

Great guy to talk to and he had some really good stories of that time and filled in a bunch of mysteries of the car. I told him that I plan on calling every month or so just to hear more and if he thought of any great stories, call me.

Sometimes the history of these cars are even better then the cars themselves.

Tremendous

[johnta1]

Cool Story!

Wouldn't know the zone and dealer number of Orwig Motors?
(and street address?)

[PurelyGTO68]

I believe the MPC book shows same part number for the scoop bezel as non RA cars. The part number gets cut off when the scoops are opened up.

When I bought my car in the late 80s.....the owner gave me a set of Verdoro green painted closed scoops. The car was Mayfair Maize by that time and the open scoops were on the car. Owner said when her husband first took delivery of the car in California the dealership installed the ram air system that was in the trunk complete with a set of open hood scoops. I asked if they were painted and she didnt remember.

The cut is very clean. The back of the scoop is not cut out....it is cut off. If you look closely, you might see some witness marks from the saw blade.i think it is on the outer edges. I talked to a guy who said he owned two RAII hardrops and he also said the scoops were in the trunk and they were open but he doesnt remember if the dealer cut them out or if they shipped that way.

Back to my car.....
In the box with the closed scoops, there was a single snorkel air cleaner with chrome lid and the heat shield for the exhaust manifold and a single sheet of instructions for installing the kit. Somewhere on that page there was directive to reinstall the closed scoops and original air cleaner in inclement weather. If that is the case, then it makes sense to ship a second set of scoops.

The open scoops on my car had red oxide primer on the underside.....do your scoops have any primer on them?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by brians

... After they installed the SR engine he removed the system and installed dual quads on the car.

Good Gracious !
2x4 and 4.33 Gears ,,, he was in a hurry to get there

Incredible you guys found each other.
Wish i could connect with any of the original owners of my GTO's.

Originally Posted by johnta1

Wouldn't know the zone and dealer number of Orwig Motors?
(and street address?)

08-279
from the BHC

[brians]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Good Gracious !
2x4 and 4.33 Gears ,,, he was in a hurry to get there

Incredible you guys found each other.
Wish i could connect with any of the original owners of my GTO's.


08-279
from the BHC

not 4.33 - the rear gear left after the replacement engine. The car was built up as a streetable race car by a place called Bud Graham Speed Shop. The rear gear was swapped for I think he said 5.13 (should have wrote that down. The car has the original 4.33 housing in it but had 3.23 gears in it when I got it so now I know why.

The speed shop made custom offset rear rims so he could run 9" slicks without rubbing. They cut up the front inner fenders and moved the brake lines for large tube over the frame headers.
(was another mystery that now I know the answer)

He said there was a picture of the front wheels about a foot off the ground but can not find any pictures or paperwork from the car. It was all at his mothers house in Alliance but must have got lost to time.


John: Did not ask him specifically, but the address I found years ago for Orwig Motors was 75 Glamorgan St, Alliance, OH. It is now a mini mall/offices

[J GLASGO]

It was later Paul Smith Pontiac. My dad bought a couple cars there in the seventh. One guy ordered 2 74 Sd birds. They came in together, and we're sitting in the double stall service area. A friend of ours still has the Formula

[johnta1]

Thanks for the info guys!

Was Paul Smith Pontiac in same place?
By the Glamorgan Castle?

OT: cool place sounds like for the castle.

[Mcronk]

Still working on making this car more correct. Today installed original booster that was rebuilt and replated along with metering valve bracket. Also replaced early 70's master cylinder with correct 68 version. Installed back up light switch on correct shifter and new back up light extension harness. Still need to decide what to do for a carb.

Before and after pics on booster and master cylinder.

[RA1John]

In my 3/69 MPC, there is a listing for "Ram Air" Hood Scoop Ornaments (separate from the standard scoop ornament)
- 68 Firebird # 9794283/84
- 68 GTO # 9794281/82

Back in '78, I actually had a set of the GTO RA (open) scoops new in the box. Left them in the trunk when I sold the car.

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by RA1John

In my 3/69 MPC, there is a listing for "Ram Air" Hood Scoop Ornaments (separate from the standard scoop ornament)
- 68 Firebird # 9794283/84
- 68 GTO # 9794281/82

Back in '78, I actually had a set of the GTO RA (open) scoops new in the box. Left them in the trunk when I sold the car.

Nice. Thanks for looking it up. My 7/71 MPC doesnt show those part numbers so I guess it was discontinued.

[PurelyGTO68]

Looking for some feedback/guidance on insurance value for car #18. Its about as finished as it's going to be for a while. I plan to drive it around this fall/winter and see what adjustments or corrections I need to make. I can already tell the mechanical fuel pump can't fill the float bowl fast enough because I run out of gas at high rpm. I will probably need to see if there is a high flow version available that looks stockish.

Before I get her out on the road regularly.....I want to up my coverage. I am thinking $150,000. Too high? Not enough? About right? What do you guys think?

[Mcronk]

Insurance is a double edged sword. It is expensive for high dollar cars but you gotta have it. I try and manage my costs because i have 4 collector car policies. I look at actual sale prices including auctions and private sales. Then i consider how much money i actually have in the car. Thats how i arrive at a value i feel comfortable with. The RA II cars don't change hands often so data is scarce. I did a search a while back and found the most recent sale results at the 2016 Barret auction. Jim Mattisons original #matching car (did not have correct exhaust manifolds) sold for $132k. Another very nicely restored RA II without original engine but correct codes sold for $110k. Both cars were professionally restored but not convertibles like yours. You can also look at the Hagerty value guide as it does provide values based on condition and body style. You can insure it for as much as you want within reason. As long as you want to pay higher premiums the insurance companies will oblige.

As for carb running out of fuel i had a similar problem when running my 67 GTO in Stock ET with the NMCA. Car would nose over hard at top of second gear (Turbo 400). I left small stock fuel line in place but ran a larger line right beside it up to stock mechanical pump. I also installed a Carter pusher pump back by the gas tank and hid the switch in the ash tray. If i make a full throttle run and forget to turn the pump on the car will nose over. With pump on it never skips a beat. Also helps fill carb for starting when car has set for a while and fuel has evaporated.

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by Mcronk

Insurance is a double edged sword. It is expensive for high dollar cars but you gotta have it. I try and manage my costs because i have 4 collector car policies. I look at actual sale prices including auctions and private sales. Then i consider how much money i actually have in the car. Thats how i arrive at a value i feel comfortable with. The RA II cars don't change hands often so data is scarce. I did a search a while back and found the most recent sale results at the 2016 Barret auction. Jim Mattisons original #matching car (did not have correct exhaust manifolds) sold for $132k. Another very nicely restored RA II without original engine but correct codes sold for $110k. Both cars were professionally restored but not convertibles like yours. You can also look at the Hagerty value guide as it does provide values based on condition and body style. You can insure it for as much as you want within reason. As long as you want to pay higher premiums the insurance companies will oblige.

As for carb running out of fuel i had a similar problem when running my 67 GTO in Stock ET with the NMCA. Car would nose over hard at top of second gear (Turbo 400). I left small stock fuel line in place but ran a larger line right beside it up to stock mechanical pump. I also installed a Carter pusher pump back by the gas tank and hid the switch in the ash tray. If i make a full throttle run and forget to turn the pump on the car will nose over. With pump on it never skips a beat. Also helps fill carb for starting when car has set for a while and fuel has evaporated.

Thanks for the reply. I plan on checking Hagerty in the morning. Last I checked a convertible in top condition was $140k then add 15% for manual trans it says. So $161k but my car doesn't have the original engine so deduct 20% I figure is about right.....so maybe $130k.

Only 5 convertibles known remain.....so that is a bit of a wildcard. Frame has partial VIN and axle is original and proper date code so that helps in some people's minds.

[Mcronk]

With only 199 GTO RA II 4 speed cars and 4.33 gears, I think only a very few have their born with drivetrains. These were really factory race cars and the 4.33 gears surely led to many engines being replaced. My car does not have born with engine or 4 speed. However i have managed to gather up a correct WY block with appropriate date code. The M21 also has appropriate date code as do the factory RA II exhaust manifolds. The rear axle is original to the car. Missing correct carb and distributor. The distributor i have is correct for 68 4 speed but not RA II. I have a complete 68 engine to rob parts from such as factory bolts, timing cover, and other odds and ends that were the same on all 68 V8's.

[Mcronk]

Resurrecting this thread to update the 68 RA II GTO 4 speed CONVERTIBLE that sold recently at BJ auction. This was the car owned by PurelyGTO68 and on the list. A very nicely done frame off restoration. The BJ website has the car listed as sold for $132k. These cars are rare and do not change hands often. The last auction results I could find were for Jim Mattisons hardtop car that sold for $132k and another one that sold for $110k both at BJ in 2016.

[Verdoro 68]

One day I hope the availability of one of these cars lines up with my means to fund a purchase.

[68pongto]

Very interesting car on eBay, it basically only has 1 option, AM radio. The other Being the Ram Air II Engine, which required the close ratio M21 and the 4.33 rear end. Too bad somebody stole the VIN and trim tag.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/26516290426...2Cchnl%3Dmkcid