#21  
Old 09-24-2020, 04:52 PM
1969 Ram Air 1969 Ram Air is offline
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Since this is turning into an Expresso Brown thread, here is a picture of my old two barrel 69 car. It was loaded with options including a power bench seat and power windows.
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69 GTO Judge, Liberty Blue/Parchment, RA3, 4-speed
69 GTO, Verdoro Green, Green, 400, 4-speed
69 Firebird 400, Starlight Black/Black, RA3, 4-speed, 611 RA Inlet
  #22  
Old 09-24-2020, 05:07 PM
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trishieldchief trishieldchief is offline
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Expresso Brown is a great color for a 69 A body.

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1969 GTO Judge Ram Air IV M21 4 speed 3:90
1970 GTO Judge Ram Air III M21 4 speed 3:90 Oshawa Built
1970 GSX Stage 1 M21 4 Speed 3.64 # 67 of 678 Original Paint
1970 GSX Stage 1 Auto 3.64 # 603 of 678 12.44@109.73 mph 2011 Buick GS Nats Pure Stock, 12.71@110.64 mph PSMCDR 2011
1970 GS Stage 1 Convertible Auto 3:64 12.71@109.15 mph PSMCDR 2009
1970 GS 455 M21 4 Speed 3.42
1987 GN Astro Roof
  #23  
Old 09-24-2020, 05:47 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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I really like Expresso Brown when it has Parchment interior.
Surprised it was a 1 year color, given the color trends back then.

As much as i hate vinyl tops on GTO's , i would have actually kept the top on this Option Overload Hardtop.
The combo works great, and it goes in hand with it being virtually fully optioned with everything on the order form.

Incredible Car
Glad it survived

  #24  
Old 09-27-2020, 06:32 PM
red1975pacer red1975pacer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram4king View Post
Maybe now is the time to try my hand at ebay with this one
What do we have here?

  #25  
Old 09-27-2020, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNoun View Post
Interesting...when I saw the invoice for this car, I thought I already had it in my records. 1969 GTO Ram Air, Expresso Brown, loaded, from Chieftain Pontiac.

Turns out I had the invoice for ANOTHER 1969 GTO Ram Air, Expresso Brown, loaded, from the SAME dealership (Chieftain Pontiac). It had 25 options, but was a 4-speed/ragtop, not an auto/hardtop like the one above.

Perhaps the 25-optioned ragtop is Ram4king's GTO?

Mike
Ram4kings's car is a Judge. A beauty too

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1969 GTO Judge Warwick blue/blue, RAIII, 4 speed, tach/gauges, Safe T track, 3.55's, ps and radio.

1971 Torino 351c 4v GT convertible. White on white with black interior
4 speed, shaker, am/fm, ps/pdb, buckets/console, ac.
One of 26 made
  #26  
Old 09-28-2020, 02:40 PM
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I normally don't like any of the brown colors but I am a fan of expresso brown GTO's.

  #27  
Old 09-28-2020, 08:02 PM
will slow gto will slow gto is offline
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I commented earlier on the engine color, which is a real head scratcher on a car of this caliber, especially considering it was treated to a $5k rebuild. BUT, the paint and body are really nice, which is more difficult and expensive to get right.

A couple of things I’m curious about. As I understand it, automatic and AC standard GTOs got the 2.93 rear gear. Would this RA3 GTO also be fitted with that numerical ratio or does RA3 get it something better in the acceleration department? And all automatic 69 GTOs came with resonators, wouldn’t that make it difficult to attach the exhaust extensions or get them to orient properly?

  #28  
Old 09-29-2020, 02:22 AM
69gtocv 69gtocv is offline
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"As I understand it, automatic and AC standard GTOs got the 2.93 rear gear"

My 69 non RA Gto automatic came with 3.55's standard. The 2 bbl Gto's got 2.93's.

  #29  
Old 09-29-2020, 08:22 AM
1969 Ram Air 1969 Ram Air is offline
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Automatic, AC cars got a 3.23 gear.

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69 GTO Judge, Liberty Blue/Parchment, RA3, 4-speed
69 GTO, Verdoro Green, Green, 400, 4-speed
69 Firebird 400, Starlight Black/Black, RA3, 4-speed, 611 RA Inlet
  #30  
Old 09-29-2020, 01:15 PM
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I think the 3.23 gears with AC and automatic was new for 69 (previous years had 2.93). Both the 350 and 366 engines had the same gears just about. 4spd no AC was 3.55, AC with any trans was 3.23 and auto no AC was 3.55 (brochures say 350 horse automatic had 3.36 but most I've ever seen had 3.55's in them).

2bbl came with a 2.93 (2.78 with AC)

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #31  
Old 09-29-2020, 01:44 PM
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I think the 3.23 gears with AC and automatic was new for 69 (previous years had 2.93). Both the 350 and 366 engines had the same gears just about. AC with any trans was 3.23, 4spd no AC was 3.55 and auto no AC was 3.55 (brochures say 350 horse automatic had 3.36 but most I've ever seen had 3.55's in them).

Expresso is very responsive to light, direct sunlight shows it to be a medium brown but softer light makes it look like dark chocolate.

. Attached are a few Expresso cars. First is my GTO ragtop, with Parchment guts and Ivory top. Very sharp color combo in my opinion. My Bonnie has the Ivory top as well but the interior is gold (this car is a brougham so it is leather but the interior color is identical to the gold seen in the GTO or Firebirds. Both these cars were painted with the same PPG Deltron system. Beautiful color but very transparent, took a lot of paint to get full coverage.

Last car is another Brougham, a four door hardtop with tired original paint, a black Cordova top (also original) and the green cloth interior. Funny story about the interior color. I have the original dealer order, he ordered it with a gold interior and Dark fawn (brown Cordova). Just like the AF/VK artwork in the brochure and magazine ads. Problem was there wasn't actually a gold interior offered on the 4 door Brougham! Someone at zone or the factory took it upon himself to install a green interior (you'd think they'd have gone with black) and a black Cordova.
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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #32  
Old 09-29-2020, 07:10 PM
red1975pacer red1975pacer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingn View Post
Ram4kings's car is a Judge. A beauty too
Has anybody ever broken down how many of the 108 were produced color wise?

  #33  
Old 09-30-2020, 12:17 AM
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Ram4king Ram4king is offline
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The only thing I know is that out of the 108 Judge convertibles only 29 were automatic and only 2 are know to exist in Exoresso brown. 1 auto and 1 4spd. My car was bought off Steve Ames 25yrs ago and had a no expense spared frame off restoration done to it..
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  #34  
Old 10-06-2020, 12:37 AM
Diego Diego is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red1975pacer View Post
Has anybody ever broken down how many of the 108 were produced color wise?
There was a list floating around several years ago but immediately it could be picked apart. I have a file on it but no sense in spreading misinformation unless I can be cajoled.

  #35  
Old 10-06-2020, 08:47 AM
1969 Ram Air 1969 Ram Air is offline
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Default Judge Color Breakdown

Here's the questionable Judge color breakdown information:

69 Judge HT's

Carousel Red-5603
Liberty Blue-411
Verdoro Green-277
Midnight Green-220
Antique Gold-44
Matador Red-36
Starlight Black-29
Palladium Silver-22
Limelight Green-18
Windward Blue-12
Cameo White-10
Expresso Brown-8
Warwick Blue-7
Mayfair Maize-3
Goldenrod Yellow-3
Crystal Turquoise-2
Champagne-1


69 Judge verts

Carousel Red-64
Matador Red-10
Liberty Blue-7
Starlight Black-5
Limelight Green-5
Verdoro Green-4
Palladium Silver-4
Mayfair Maize-3
Cameo White-3
Expresso Brown-2
Crystal Turquoise-1

70 Judge HT

Polar White-853
Orbit Orange-575
Atoll Blue-486
Cardinal Red-389
Palladium Silver-356
Granada Gold-276
Pepper Green-258
Bermuda Blue-131
Starlight Black-125
Polar White Black Spoiler-51
Sierra Yellow-46
Palisade Green-28
Baja Gold-26
Palamino Copper-18
Burgandy-7
Daytona Yellow-2
Mint Turquoise-2

70 Judge verts

Polar White-39
Orbit Orange-36
Cardinal Red-20
Starlight Black-15
Atoll Blue-12
Pepper Green-11
Bermuda Blue-9
Granda Gold-7
Palladium Silver-6
Serria Yellow-6
Palisade Green-3
Palamino Copper-2
Daytona Yellow-1
Burgandy-1

71 Judge HT

Lucerne Blue-109
Laurentain Green-88
Cardinal Red-45
Cameo White-29
Starlight Black-20
Tropical Lime-15
Cameo White Black Spoiler-15
Castillian Bronze-13
Canyon Copper-11
Aztec Gold-5
Limekist Green-3
Nordic Silver-3
Quezal Gold-1

71 Judge verts

Cameo White-3
Laurentain Green-3
Cardinal Red-2
Tropical Lime-1
Castillian Bronze-1
Lucerne Blue-1
Aztec Gold-1
Canyon Copper-1
Quezel Gold-1
Starlight Black-1
Special Order Green-1
Special Order White-1

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69 GTO Judge, Liberty Blue/Parchment, RA3, 4-speed
69 GTO, Verdoro Green, Green, 400, 4-speed
69 Firebird 400, Starlight Black/Black, RA3, 4-speed, 611 RA Inlet

Last edited by 1969 Ram Air; 10-06-2020 at 08:53 AM.
  #36  
Old 10-06-2020, 01:15 PM
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Ram4king Ram4king is offline
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Man that list is screwy at best. Lol
First of all I believe there's way less carousel red cars. Ive personally seen and owned more of some of the colors posted and how come my 69 Burgundy Judge is not listed. DO I HAVE THE ONLY ONE???
LOL

  #37  
Old 10-06-2020, 05:05 PM
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north north is offline
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I agree with Ram4king, my PHS collection indicates less than half of 69 Judges were CR.

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #38  
Old 10-08-2020, 09:15 PM
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Mark Simiele Mark Simiele is offline
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Great photos of some of your cars John.

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69 GTO convertible Warwick blue w/parchment, 400 4bbl auto trans, #'s matching, frame off resto w/ 36 options and more coming.

67 Bonneville 428 convertible one of one Verdoro green w/parchment, documented GM brass hat parade car with every option for 67, non running MAJOR future project.
  #39  
Old 10-09-2020, 05:30 PM
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trishieldchief trishieldchief is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1969 Ram Air View Post
Here's the questionable Judge color breakdown information:

69 Judge HT's

Carousel Red-5603
Liberty Blue-411
Verdoro Green-277
Midnight Green-220
Antique Gold-44
Matador Red-36
Starlight Black-29
Palladium Silver-22
Limelight Green-18
Windward Blue-12
Cameo White-10
Expresso Brown-8
Warwick Blue-7
Mayfair Maize-3
Goldenrod Yellow-3
Crystal Turquoise-2
Champagne-1


69 Judge verts

Carousel Red-64
Matador Red-10
Liberty Blue-7
Starlight Black-5
Limelight Green-5
Verdoro Green-4
Palladium Silver-4
Mayfair Maize-3
Cameo White-3
Expresso Brown-2
Crystal Turquoise-1

70 Judge HT

Polar White-853
Orbit Orange-575
Atoll Blue-486
Cardinal Red-389
Palladium Silver-356
Granada Gold-276
Pepper Green-258
Bermuda Blue-131
Starlight Black-125
Polar White Black Spoiler-51
Sierra Yellow-46
Palisade Green-28
Baja Gold-26
Palamino Copper-18
Burgandy-7
Daytona Yellow-2
Mint Turquoise-2

70 Judge verts

Polar White-39
Orbit Orange-36
Cardinal Red-20
Starlight Black-15
Atoll Blue-12
Pepper Green-11
Bermuda Blue-9
Granda Gold-7
Palladium Silver-6
Serria Yellow-6
Palisade Green-3
Palamino Copper-2
Daytona Yellow-1
Burgandy-1

71 Judge HT

Lucerne Blue-109
Laurentain Green-88
Cardinal Red-45
Cameo White-29
Starlight Black-20
Tropical Lime-15
Cameo White Black Spoiler-15
Castillian Bronze-13
Canyon Copper-11
Aztec Gold-5
Limekist Green-3
Nordic Silver-3
Quezal Gold-1

71 Judge verts

Cameo White-3
Laurentain Green-3
Cardinal Red-2
Tropical Lime-1
Castillian Bronze-1
Lucerne Blue-1
Aztec Gold-1
Canyon Copper-1
Quezel Gold-1
Starlight Black-1
Special Order Green-1
Special Order White-1
69 Ram Air, what is the the source for these color production #'s?

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Rich Johns

Owner/Operator of Pure Stock Auto Restorations Inc.
www.purestockauto.com

1969 GTO Judge Ram Air IV M21 4 speed 3:90
1970 GTO Judge Ram Air III M21 4 speed 3:90 Oshawa Built
1970 GSX Stage 1 M21 4 Speed 3.64 # 67 of 678 Original Paint
1970 GSX Stage 1 Auto 3.64 # 603 of 678 12.44@109.73 mph 2011 Buick GS Nats Pure Stock, 12.71@110.64 mph PSMCDR 2011
1970 GS Stage 1 Convertible Auto 3:64 12.71@109.15 mph PSMCDR 2009
1970 GS 455 M21 4 Speed 3.42
1987 GN Astro Roof
  #40  
Old 10-10-2020, 03:21 AM
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69droptopraiii 69droptopraiii is offline
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I know it has been previously mentioned that there were 2-69 Expresso brown convertible judges.I am curious if anyone knows of any 69 Expresso brown convertibles with the ram air 3 or 4 option besides mine.

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