Pontiac - Boost Turbo, supercharged, Nitrous, EFI & other Power Adders discussed here.

          
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  #21  
Old 12-19-2019, 07:56 AM
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I think the best place for them is in the bosses. Thats where i have mine and it works great. Its a straight shot right into the valve pocket. Cant get better then that..

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Old 12-19-2019, 08:10 AM
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Looks good, taff.

Are you running alcohol or gasoline?
With alcohol and injectors at the port entrance the whole manifold on mine can frost up. It didn't need to be 'high' to cool intake.
(also doesn't take up space in plenum from the fuel)


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  #23  
Old 12-19-2019, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taff2 View Post
Here's a few pics of the re-vamped intake, Wenzler Gutsram with my original carb box . I'll be positioning the injectors in the usual place- as much for convenience as knowing that they will work at that location. The Gutsram took some grinding to clean up the ports!
Your intake looks great taff2.
I would probably weld one or two bosses in the center of the "V" of the lower manifold to allow one or two fasteners to hold the top plate in the centerline of the intake and keep it from flexing. At higher boost pressures and with a large surface area, the plate can flex and leak at the edges over time, (even with a "0-ring" seal at the edges).
Really like your Burst Plate ADDITION ON THE INTAKE.

Tom V.

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  #24  
Old 12-19-2019, 05:35 PM
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You could always add methanol injection in the intake tract for cooling, if necessary.

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  #25  
Old 12-19-2019, 07:41 PM
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What efi system are you using Charlie? I've got the Holley HP system with 220lb injectors, CNP ignition, dual 70mm TB's, looks relatively user friendly. Most of it was bought from Glenn Payne at MAD racing parts- very good prices and good customer service- he's over on YB.
John, I'll be using gasoline (or petrol as we call it over here!) I watched the tractor pullers a few years back, the blown meth mini pullers had sheets of ice falling off the blower/manifold during the run.
Tom, it's not visible in the pics,but I have 20 x 6mm studs holding the plenum box and manifold adapter plate to the Gutsram -14 of them are internal- not the best way I know but they are Red Loctited into the manifold with punch marks around the perimeter of them,the lock nuts are all metal aircraft type ,Red Loctited too and the top couple of bolt threads are crushed. There shouldn't be a need to ever remove the plenum box and manifold adapter plate from the actual manifold as the lid is removable for checking the studs. I didn't want to weld the plenum/adapter plate to the Gutsram in case I want to change/modify it in the future.
Scott, I have a water/meth injection setup on the combo, 2 jets into the plenum box and 1 jet into each turbo compressor , I may run almost 100% meth through that if needed.

  #26  
Old 12-19-2019, 08:44 PM
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Sorry if I did not make my suggestion clear.

I was suggesting having two aluminum dowel "pillars" that are inside the plenum area and connect the bottom of the plenum with the top (lid) of the plenum on the centerline of the intake (front to back same as crankshaft is located).

The fasteners would go thru the bottom of the plenum and the top (lid) of the plenum and keep the lid from bowing upward.

The lower fasteners could be a bolt loc-tited into the lower thread on the dowel.
The upper part of the dowel would have a double threaded stud that would be loctited into the dowel and a nylock nut and washer would secure it on the top but would still allow the lid to be removed (along with the other fasteners on the lid) if required.

Tom V.

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  #27  
Old 12-20-2019, 08:31 AM
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Ah, right, I see what you mean Tom. Originally, the top lid had two studs through it holding the complete plenum box down onto the carbs. As I switched to efi I made a new lid from T6 ali so that I wouldn't have the two holes in the top, as I intended getting the Pontiac arrowhead laser etched into it - I'll have to look into implementing your suggestion,thanks.

  #28  
Old 12-20-2019, 08:38 AM
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I have a FAST XFI 2.0. I think the holley is more user friendly though. Good choice you made there Paul. I wish i bought Holley.. Steve Morris uses the Holley with alot of his stuff and says good things about it..

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  #29  
Old 12-20-2019, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taff2 View Post
Ah, right, I see what you mean Tom. Originally, the top lid had two studs through it holding the complete plenum box down onto the carbs. As I switched to efi I made a new lid from T6 ali so that I wouldn't have the two holes in the top, as I intended getting the Pontiac arrowhead laser etched into it - I'll have to look into implementing your suggestion,thanks.
Yep, the carb studs would have done the same thing (up to a point where the air horn casting failed). Rochester 2 bbls being weaker vs say a Holley 2-bbl type main body.

Port EFI stuff you just need the dowels. You want the Burst Panel to blow before the top plate exits the vehicle.

Tom V.

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  #30  
Old 12-22-2019, 08:37 AM
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Charlie, with my Holley setup, as it's the first efi system I've used - I had Steve Morris put a safe 1300-1400 hp tune in the Holley ECU (just an sd card -only $100), so it will give me something to go off when I start playing with the maps etc.
Many years back Tom, on my first turbo Pontiac build, I fabbed up a sheet steel square blow through carb box with a heater core inside for cooling the charge. On one run the engine popped back through the carb,and when I got back to the pits I found the carb box had blown up to resemble a sofa cushion!

  #31  
Old 12-22-2019, 08:53 AM
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Paul, you should be good then . Steve knows his tunes. I wish i had his advise . Probaly would be further down the road with what i do ... Glad to hear you have him helping you out like that..

Good luck...

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  #32  
Old 12-22-2019, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taff2 View Post
Thanks JS.
In the bosses cast into the runners,just above the head ports. With my previous modified Offy manifold,I had contemplated placing the injectors in a spacer over the plenum and firing into each opposite port - for the extra cooling of the charge by better fuel vapourisation- but as time is limited,I decided to go with the proven method of injector placement. I've also switched from my Siamese ported 96 heads and open Offy to conventional 7H1 divided port runner heads and the Gutsram for the same reasons.

Sounds and looks like a wining combination! What size throttle body are you going to run?

SPEED SAFE, NICK

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  #33  
Old 12-22-2019, 10:45 AM
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It has been tested/proven that the placement of the injectors in the runners made no better or worse difference being high up at the plenum, in the middle or at the head to manifold flage . All of them gave the same results..

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  #34  
Old 12-22-2019, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taff2 View Post
Many years back Tom, on my first turbo Pontiac build, I fabbed up a sheet steel square blow through carb box with a heater core inside for cooling the charge. On one run the engine popped back through the carb,and when I got back to the pits I found the carb box had blown up to resemble a sofa cushion!
I post on the Turbo Forums as well as be a Moderator over there.
I would post about Blow-Thru Holley Carb Mods.

A guy cast up a "Bonnet" (that roughly) resembled the Vortech Blow thru Carb Bonnet. His was made with a thin wall thickness. So he has a Tuning issue and the bonnet cracks 2/3rds around the bonnet perimeter. I have the picture somewhere.

Eliminating cracked bonnets is the job of a Good PAIR of By-pass Valves plumbed correctly. They will not fix a bad tune-up but will keep the bonnets from cracking from pressure fatigue.

Square Boxes have very little actual strength against high pressure spikes.

Tom V.

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  #35  
Old 12-23-2019, 07:22 AM
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I bought the Holley HP ECU from Steve Morris, (before I found Glenn at M.A.D), the tune on an sd card is something he offers for just $100 -whether you buy the ecu from him or if you already have the ecu, I think it's a bargain.
I'm using twin 70mm TB's, opposite each other on the plenum box.
I used to frequent the Turbo forum many moons ago, it's where I learnt how to mod my previous carbs for blow through operation using the 'crutch' system .

  #36  
Old 01-15-2020, 09:55 PM
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Looks a lot like mine. Keep up the good work:

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  #37  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:26 PM
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The Plenum Box like in Jack's picture is a good one, especially when running Naturally Aspirated. The crutch did work pretty darn well for a system using a Tire Inflator Air Pump.

Tom V.

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  #38  
Old 01-16-2020, 02:04 PM
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These really look great guys!!! I like to make my own parts and it just amazing what talent people have.

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