Pontiac - Race The next Level

          
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-24-2021, 01:12 PM
Skip Fix's Avatar
Skip Fix Skip Fix is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Katy,TX USA
Posts: 20,578
Default Bearing size and oil holes

Starting to mock up mew block and crank specs before I take it to machine shop. Main bores all on the tight side 3.1880. When I add the Sealed Power 113M bearings I get a 0.004 clearance. Crank is 2.9995 on journals. Another brand a click tighter bearings? Or a 0.001 undersize?

Also main saddle oil holes not centered(except #1 last picture)-slot main saddle or notch bearing?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_0413.jpg
Views:	200
Size:	27.2 KB
ID:	568769   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_0416.jpg
Views:	250
Size:	26.0 KB
ID:	568770   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_0409.jpg
Views:	197
Size:	34.4 KB
ID:	568772   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_0412.jpg
Views:	186
Size:	35.7 KB
ID:	568773   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_0417.jpg
Views:	203
Size:	29.1 KB
ID:	568774  


__________________
Skip Fix
1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever!
1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand
1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project
2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4
1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project
1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs
  #2  
Old 06-24-2021, 02:09 PM
AG's Avatar
AG AG is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: NH
Posts: 3,250
Default

I used the same bearings in my IAII block and opened up the bearing feed holes to allow a more direct flow into the bearing from the main saddle feed hole.

__________________
1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
  #3  
Old 06-24-2021, 07:41 PM
Gary H's Avatar
Gary H Gary H is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 1,331
Default

Clevite or KIng bearings will tighten it up quite a bit compared to Sealed Power bearings. I'd open up the holes for the main bearing 1 through 3 too. I'd guess at least .0005 or a tad more tighter than the Sealed Power bearings based on what I see here daily.

__________________
62' Lemans, Nostalgia Super Stock, 541 CI, IA2 block, billet 4.5" crank, Ross, Wide port Edelbrocks, Gustram intake, 2 4150 style BLP carbs, 2.10 Turbo 400, 9" w/4:30 gears, 8.76 @153, 3100lbs
  #4  
Old 06-24-2021, 10:04 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Humbolt County California
Posts: 8,335
Default

Line up the oil hole in the block on the tab side, that is where the shot of oil comes from. I drill a whole new hole the same side as the one in the block. Clean it up with Dremmel and small file.

  #5  
Old 06-24-2021, 10:11 PM
Skip Fix's Avatar
Skip Fix Skip Fix is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Katy,TX USA
Posts: 20,578
Default

I saw King also has 0.001 undersize so maybe get a set of STD and those to see where we get.

__________________
Skip Fix
1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever!
1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand
1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project
2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4
1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project
1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs
  #6  
Old 06-25-2021, 07:14 AM
steve25's Avatar
steve25 steve25 is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Westchester NY
Posts: 14,752
Default

Yup, .004” is too much by .0015” in my book with a cast crank if that’s the case , but even if you where running a steel crank unless you where making over 750 hp and spinning the motor to over way 7200 I still would not want more clearance then .0035”.
Even .0035” is 50 wt oil territory!

It not just the misalignment of those oil holes that need to ground over, but if you look close at the way those oil feed passages are drilled out to form that feed channel in the block you will see that the area of the oil feed passage in the main web is bigger then the V shaped area the the oil flow has to pass through to get to the bearing hole and in some of the main webs to scoot over to the oil gallery on the other side of the block.

I always grind open these V shaped passages to match the area of the main oil feed passage.

__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
  #7  
Old 06-25-2021, 08:14 AM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Liberty Hill, Tx. (Austin)
Posts: 10,430
Default

opened up the bearing feed holes to allow a more direct flow into the bearing from the main saddle feed hole.

X2



.

__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE
  #8  
Old 06-25-2021, 09:06 AM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Liberty Hill, Tx. (Austin)
Posts: 10,430
Default

Concerning the IA2 block.

From this:

http://www.allpontiac.com/online_cat...ding_notes.pdf

CHECK ALL OIL PASSAGES AND DEBURR IF NEEDED

EXAMPLE, take note that the location where the oil passages intersect within the front main can use some attention. The depth where they intersect is not the same as a factory block, it's closer to the bearing.
Similar situation on the three center mains.


.

__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE
  #9  
Old 06-25-2021, 09:27 AM
Skip Fix's Avatar
Skip Fix Skip Fix is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Katy,TX USA
Posts: 20,578
Default

Forged crank-hoping for at least 750HP.

__________________
Skip Fix
1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever!
1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand
1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project
2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4
1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project
1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs
  #10  
Old 06-25-2021, 11:33 AM
Bill Eveland's Avatar
Bill Eveland Bill Eveland is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Glasford Il
Posts: 3,654
Default

I had to line up all the oil holes on mine, i also dropped the intersecting area lower from the surface. Look at a factory block, they are over 1/4 down. I used a dremel and a tile grout bit that worked really good.

__________________
Illinois Outlaw Gassers

6.27@107
9.97@131
  #11  
Old 06-25-2021, 12:25 PM
Skip Fix's Avatar
Skip Fix Skip Fix is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Katy,TX USA
Posts: 20,578
Default

Yep factory blocks they intersect and lower.

__________________
Skip Fix
1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever!
1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand
1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project
2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4
1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project
1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs
  #12  
Old 06-25-2021, 11:00 PM
77 TRASHCAN's Avatar
77 TRASHCAN 77 TRASHCAN is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 31May2013 Temporary home to the world's widest (that we know of) tornado. Lord, NO more Please...
Posts: 6,595
Default

Skip, what’s this heathen 750 HP engine going in?

__________________
1977 Black Trans Am 180 HP Auto, essentially base model T/A.
I'm the original owner, purchased May 7, 1977.

Shut it off
Shut it off
Buddy, I just shut your Prius down...
  #13  
Old 06-26-2021, 09:01 AM
Skip Fix's Avatar
Skip Fix Skip Fix is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Katy,TX USA
Posts: 20,578
Default

Probably into the 79 Camaro/IA-but my projects take a year or two. Have a new trans for the Camaro to see if old TH400 is some of 60 ft issue. It has always felt just a little weird.

__________________
Skip Fix
1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever!
1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand
1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project
2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4
1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project
1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs
  #14  
Old 06-26-2021, 09:24 AM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,096
Default

Many different approaches can be used to get the oil feeds in the right position for maximum flow. I prefer to modify the bearing shells vs the block. Some good builders groove the block and perform other modifications. The disadvantage of doing this is you are then married to a particular brand/style of bearing. On very high HP race engines, I open the oil feed in the bearing to expose as much area as the block can supply for the mains and rods. I do not worry or care about the cam bearing feeds. They get plenty of oil. Some pics for an IA II block with FM 113M bearings.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P9140109.jpg
Views:	193
Size:	74.2 KB
ID:	568833   Click image for larger version

Name:	P9150006.jpg
Views:	182
Size:	46.0 KB
ID:	568834   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1060001.JPG
Views:	166
Size:	121.0 KB
ID:	568835  

  #15  
Old 06-26-2021, 10:51 AM
Skip Fix's Avatar
Skip Fix Skip Fix is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Katy,TX USA
Posts: 20,578
Default

Thanks.

Goal for the Camaro/IA has always been 10.00s in the 100 degree Texas heat-like last week! Hedging bets if the current motor does not get me there.

I know I saw an old RAV block years ago that had the cam bearing feeds tapped for restrictors. The IA seems smaller than main feed holes, compared to factory blocks. that seem almost the same size.

__________________
Skip Fix
1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever!
1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand
1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project
2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4
1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project
1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:16 PM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017