[Shiny]

Working on a 70 auto console, I removed the sheet steel woodgrain backings from the plated die-cast housings for shifter and front section. I have now replaced the woodgrain vinyl and need to glue the steel sheets back to the plated housings.

I tried using a spray contact adhesive from Home Depot and it was not strong enough. The edges of the steel sheet need to be pulled down pretty hard to conform to the curve of the housing on the big front section. The adhesive I used was not strong enough to hold down the edges so I pulled it apart again and cleaned off the weak glop.

What contact adhesive would you recommend that is strong enough for this job and will hold up over time? I prefer a spray to apply a uniform thickness, but could also brush it if the working time was long enough to avoid balling up.

It looks like the factory used a thin contact or unsupported pressure-sensitive adhesive, but even the factory stuff had given out on the used parts I started with.

[SteveGB21]

Before gluing, have you flatten down the plate completely down on the bezel?

[rexs73gto]

Once the plate is FLAT to the bezel & I men it has to be perfectly flat or you won't get it to stay down ever. But once it's flat you can use trim glue that you would use to install outer side moldings, it come in a tube like a toothpaste tube & is very sticky & is a yellow color. If you use that it will stay & it is waterproof to. You can get it at most any parts ,,, good parts store or a automotive paint store.

[Shiny]

Sorry to be unclear. The flat insert for the shifter bezel is not a problem.

The big front bezel insert is the challenge. The casting has a large crown. The stiff steel backer does not conform and it takes considerable force to get it where it belongs. There is no way I can bend it without destroying it, so I am hoping a strong contact adhesive will hold it down.

The two pictures show how much the backer needs to be flattened to conform to the bezel crown. One picture is "free" and the other I rocked on one side to show how much the other side needs to drop.

When I got the console, the insert was not stuck well and had lifted up along both long sides, so I suspect this is a common issue. By simple inspection, it looks to me like the steel stamping was never formed well and the factory must also have relied on glue to hold it down.

[Shiny]

Thanks to both.

The bezel has a double crown, with a smaller radius across than over the length.

The steel backer also has a double crown, but just not enough across to conform well to the casting.

There is no way I could form that steel backer more without destroying it. It appears to be heavily cold-rolled steel and is pretty strong. I did not flatten it when I cleaned it up, so I figure it never conformed well.

I have a tube of the yellow 3M trim adhesive, but it is thick and I don't have any confidence I could apply it uniformly. Is there a brush-on or better, spray-on version?

[Shiny]

I gave up on the contact cement idea and went with a slow-curing 2-part epoxy instead. I diluted with alcohol, then brushed on, let it flash, dropped in the insert, clamped, and am now letting it cure.

Hopefully it won't ooze out the edges and ruin the new vinyl...

I think it would be best to use a "toughened" epoxy since the insert and casting are dissimilar materials, but I decided I'd risk it with JB Weld Marine, as a flexible epoxy wasn't on the shelf at the parts store.

[Shiny]

Well, now I am starting to feel totally foolish over something so seemingly simple.

I was excited to have this glued down, removed the clamps after 24 hrs cure, and the insert turned loose immediately!

No drama, not even a nice popping noise, just a politely indignant refusal to stay stuck!!

Conclusion: the epoxy did not stick worth beans to back side of the steel backing. Maybe I didn't clean it well enough, but whatever, it didn't stick even as well as the spray contact adhesive I started with. It did stick pretty well to the casting, but even though it wetted out, had near zero adhesion to the steel.

How hard can I make this?

Any suggestions on the next adhesive to try? Should I consider a 3M tape trim adhesive ? Or go back to my original thought of a paint-on contact cement?

Anyone else ever battled this and won?

[GTOLiam]

If nobody else has a better idea try Araldite. I found it through a friend who's an A&P mechanic and it's good stuff (aircraft panel bonding and repairs).

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00N2E5H3Q/...ing=UTF8&psc=1

[My64GTO]

I have used this stuff in the past for weatherstripping and gaskets. I believe this was the stuff Rexs73gto was speaking of too...

http://www.amazon.com/3M-08001-Yello.../dp/B000HTNNDA

[Shiny]

Thanks to all for suggestions. I did some reading on 3M's web site and concluded:

1- epoxy or acrylic would be quite a bit stronger than the trim adhesive or an acrylic tape
2- epoxy requires chemical prep for best adhesion and has low tolerance for surface contamination
3. newer 3M structural acrylics are as strong as epoxy and much more forgiving on surface prep

So I ordered their "new gen" acrylic, DP8410NS online, keeping my fingers crossed and will spend some time roughening up the back side of the steel backer this next time. Anyone ever used this stuff for anything similar?

[rexs73gto]

I have to say If you use the 3M trim glue that is the yellow stuff in a tube after working in dealerships for 33 years I can say it will work. Just squeeze it on both sides of the parts let it dry for about 2-3 min's & stick them together & use the clamps you have so it will stay in place & after about 3-4 hours you won't be able to get it back off,, well at least very easy. The glue thats on the 2 face tape GM uses to install side moldings is the same glue in that tube. just on the tape instead of in the tube. It will work. But don't put any alcohol on any part of the glue as it will devolve the glue as it did for your other stuff.

[Shiny]

Hey Rexs73gto, thanks again

I agree the yellow stuff is OK, but I don't trust it for this after feeling how much force it takes to make the steel backer conform to the crowned bezel casting. It may well be strong enough, but given I've tried this now with both a spray and an epoxy, I'm going to use the strongest option I could find. I am tired of do-overs on this !

If that yellow stuff turned loose, I don't think I could peel off the insert steel backer without bending it, which is another consideration.

I did use something similar to the yellow on the shifter bezel insert, which is flat. I had some Whirlpool glue left over from an appliance repair and it is easy to use and strong. I find it easier to spread thin than the yellow trim adhesive. The parts bonded with this stuff are clamped now, hopefully will stick well enough.

That Araldite epoxy recommended by GTOLiam looks strong, but after the JB Weld didn't stick, I think the acrylic was the better option from the 3M info I found. 20 minutes into this presentation, they show a chart that shows how the acrylic is much more tolerant of less than perfect surface prep (mine).

[Shiny]

Got it!

3rd-time's a charm.

This simple project now ranks as my all-time do-over, overkilled, mistake-ridden exercise yet.


But I'm Ok with that because I battled myself and I won.


Net for the console bezel with the curved base and near-flat insert:

The Scotch-Weld in the photo worked great. I removed all the too-weak glue, abraded both surfaces with 220 grit, cleaned with acetone as 3M advised. The stuff stinks, but is easy to work with and has built-in spacer beads to make sure the bond thickness is optimized. Time will tell, but it seems stuck well.

JB Marine Weld in the photo was useless for me on these parts. Spray-on contact adhesive provided my first bad experience.



Shifter bezel:

The Whirlpool appliance adhesive worked for me. I'm sure the 3M trim adhesive would also work well for this.

[rexs73gto]

Hope it stays down for you this time , got my fingers crossed for you.

[Shiny]

Thanks rexs73gto

If it doesn't, I'm really good at stripping off old adhesive!

[NeighborsComplaint]

Did you try 3M Trim adhesive in the aerosol can? You coat both surfaces and let it tack and then carefully place the trim. It will not budge so you have 1 shot at getting it straight.

I used it to glue down the vinyl trim flashing on the front of the package tray that drapes behind the seats. Sticks like ... glue.

[Shiny]

Hi NC

Thanks for the suggestion.

I did not try the 3m trim adhesive in a spray. The spray I tried was a Loctite "Professional Performance 300 Heavy". It was not even close to strong enough to keep the stiff steel backer plate from peeling itself off the curved bezel.

The 3M trim adhesive (spray or tube) may be strong enough, but after 2 failed attempts (2nd time with epoxy), I was taking no chances and found the Scotch Weld acrylic stuff that was way stronger than the 3M trim adhesive (at least on paper per specs). It worked well, had 10 minutes working time to align and clamp.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Cool. Glad you got it worked out.

[rexs73gto]

It's been a couple days now has it stayed in place this time???

[Shiny]

Thanks for asking.

Yes, it's stuck well and mounted in the console.

I'm finally getting close to having the console done. Had to order a shift indicator. Final barrier is overcoming my reluctance to spend what they want for a bin liner.

Shifter and back drive is another similar long story, but I can see the light at the end of this bucket seat and floor shifter conversion tunnel.