[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by Judge273

Thanks Bet Winner:

I just checked mine is a 03A Balt built Judge. It has original ram air cables. Maybe too late for early connector??

redgto366's car is 03C and apparently used the bracket/bolt/washer/nut set-up. If yours was changed over to the block, the cable ends that fit into the bracket may have been cut to fit into the block as he pointed out.

I am not sure enough to give you a definite answer yet as to what was used when.

It is a shame that possibly few of these cars retained the original set-up. These pieces could be easily lost I assume and cause some to switch to the block.

[redgto366]

Just think if at any time for any reason that the hood had to be removed this bracket assy would have to be taken apart. With the block style connector you could undo one of the set screws and keep the block attached to the other end of the cable making loss of block a minimum. I think that alot of these original style connectors got tossed into trunks, tool boxes and probably the trash. So a few months later when you go to attach your Ram Air again you cant find where you misplaced the bracket so you go to the dealership or wrecking yard and find that the block is all thast available cut the ends of your cables, rendering your original cables useless to this style setup. I think its just years of neglect and alot of racing and fenders being replaced on these cars. I think its cars like mine and others that we bought and kept from the early 80's that still have this original equipment. I remember seeing Ram Air cables with the bent ends all over the place in the 80's and early 90's at swap meets. You hardly ever see these cables anymore, and I think that the ones bought way back then ended up being cut I personally saw a half dozen cut. I debated this very same topic 20 years ago and still maintain that all 69 Ram Air cars despite where they were built had this style connector. Is it no coincidence that all the low mile original untouched cars that are being found these days still have this style connector. Well thats my two cents and even though I have owned my car since 1981 when I purchased it the drivers fender was replaced with a Lemans fender, I would assume that the hood to my car was removed at this time and I guess I just got lucky that the original RA parts were put back togther.

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by redgto366

I debated this very same topic 20 years ago and still maintain that all 69 Ram Air cars despite where they were built had this style connector.

I respect your opinion. You may be right.

It seemed to me that if all the 69 Ram Air cars had this connector that there would be more knowledge about it--especially 20 years ago and especially 30 years ago because I have had my car since 1979. But I did not consider this back then--only recently when I realized that everyone only accepted the early and late block styles.

So, maybe people will find those that have original cars to see what is on them. Finding a few that used this in later 69 cars and at other factories could prove your point. It might then be a worthwhile repo for the cables/bracket/etc if you are right.

[redgto366]

I am amazed that this has stayed a phenomenom for so long, I saw alot more of these brackets 20-30 years ago then I do now, but even back then it was still sort of an anomaly. I have never seen a service bulletin or anything announcing a change to the block style connector for 1969. Even highly regarded restoration books have no mention of this connector and I think it leads people to believe that the block was the only style available. I think time and ignorance has hidden the fact that this connector style exists, especially if National judges would reject there existence. My evidence is still based on page 6B-3 of all 1969 Pontiac service manuals, it would amaze me to find out that there were only a couple hundred originals left intact. It also makes me think about the cable spring that was brought up in another post (an item I have never seen on a car) or heard of until recently. Because my scoops have always closed like your's Bet Winner, if they are 3/4 of the way open they will close if closed with the knob, if they are all the way open they wont close unless flappers are moved with your finger and they close with a loud pop. I realized a dozen years ago that by just pulling the cable back a little it would take tension off the cable and the scoops would close with a loud pop. Now if there was a spring holding the cable back the scoops would probably close smoother. I checked my firewall for a hole but none was evident, makes me wonder if this spring was a fix that certain factories inititiated or a late year change that was utilized to fix this problem. Anyway only way we will ever know is by documenting these things as we are doing now, wish we could find more guys who know about or have this style of connector on their car.

[Bet Winner]

One of the national judges said that this could be a Baltimore only connector--but nothing definite from him--just that it might be. I don't believe anyone knows for sure yet.

I am just bumping this again to see if another ram air car is found with this connector--especially one from a factory besides Baltimore.

It is JMHO that this is an early style connector. The service manual shows this set-up, but the manuals were probably done at the beginning of production. If this was used through out the 1969 model run, there are a whole lot of incorrect block connectors on 1969 ram air cars..........

Let us know if you have/had a car with this connector and the factory.

thanks

[roundportponchos]

I think the firebirds used these also. I know of a may, 69 car, has the block connector..

Originally Posted by Judge273

Looks like an repop part that could be done? Early Judges need these? I have block connector with early bracket on a 04A Balt 69 Judge.

I would buy one....

[Bet Winner]

I have had all the proof that I needed for the correctness of this early connector in my old "stash" which I just happened to look thru. The March 1969 Car Craft tells of test drives done in November 1968 of the preproduction Judge and Trans Am. This Judge has the stickers but uses the white paint slash instead of the production multicolored stripes. The Trans Am has no stripes and a slightly different wing.

Anyway, in the picture of the Judge's engine compartment, the early connector is clearly visible.

If anyone has a non-Baltimore car with this connector, please let us know since we have only found early Baltimore cars with this connector.

[ahub421]

Any chance you could post those pictures? I plan on taking mine to the GTOAA and POCI nats this summer. Proof might save some points being deducted for what we know is a correct set up.

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by ahub421

Any chance you could post those pictures? I plan on taking mine to the GTOAA and POCI nats this summer. Proof might save some points being deducted for what we know is a correct set up.

I will try to get some pictures when I drag the old 35mm back out--sorry.

But really the best thing is to print this thread and take the maintenance manual with you that shows this set up. The maintenance manual is something directly from Pontiac. Also, if you have an early car from Baltimore, it is probably close to 100% that your car came with this set up. This thread should help prove that I hope.

If your car is not a Baltimore car and you do not know that this set up is original, you might need to rethink using this. (I'm sorry if you have already told us what factory your car is from.)

The GTOAA references this forum as its technical forum I believe and one of the national head judges has alread told me that this may have been a Baltimore only connector. But nobody seems to know for sure!

Good luck at the shows. I hope to go to POCI w/o a car. Michael

[north]

I remember having one like that from a 70 I parted (it was a non RA 70 GTO that had a 69 RA set up on it, 69 I assume because the aircleaner was 69 style)

Just about every 69 GTO sold here (Quebec) was from Baltimore.

[Bet Winner]

Just to finish beating this topic into the groud, I have attached a picture of another early connector from a Baltimore RAIV GTO from this year's POCI convention in WV. It was a February or March car--forgot which. The car is still owned by the original owner who was 20 when he got it.

Unless someone can prove otherwise, I'm going to conclude that this was only done in Baltimore and done thru approximately March.

[brians]

I wonder if there was some sort of quiet recall on this? One of those change only if they complain recalls? The Nov. 1969 parts book has no mention of parts for an early type before the Type 1 block system. There were many Baltimore built Judges in Jan, Feb, and March, so you would think more of these Parts would have shown up over the years unless there was some reason they were removed very early.

I have a 3D built Baltimore Judge with the Type 2 coated cable system on it. Owned it since 1988 and can trace it to 1980, which is way before the reproductions happened.
If 3C built cars have surfaced with this early type – maybe that was the last of the time frame or maybe the dealers were instructed to change them out?

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by brians

you would think more of these Parts would have shown up over the years unless there was some reason they were removed very early.

I have a 3D built Baltimore Judge with the Type 2 coated cable system on it. Owned it since 1988 and can trace it to 1980, which is way before the reproductions happened.
If 3C built cars have surfaced with this early type – maybe that was the last of the time frame or maybe the dealers were instructed to change them out?

The early connector is a little tedious to attach since you have to hold the cable ends (which have bends in them to fit the stamped metal piece) on the stamped piece and also hold the bolt/washer and tighten the nut. The tightened washer holds the cable ends firmly in place. It works great once tightened if you don't lose any of the pieces and get it attached correctly.

I suppose that the difficulty to get it attached and the pieces needed caused PMD to start using a simplier one piece block.

I would think that dealerships cut the cable ends on these longer cables to remove the bends and attached the block on a regular basis if a piece was lost.

I'll bet that the number of these that are still complete is very small.