[Bet Winner]

I have read that the "closed 4" Judge T-Handle was the first design and the open 4 was used later and sold over the counter by Pontiac. I believed that the closed 4 was the design used on production cars (at least early Judges), but I just had one of the vendors selling the closed 4 t-handle tell me just the opposite. (In other words, he stated that his closed 4 t-handle was not the correct assembly line part. He believes the open 4 is correct.)

Does anyone have the facts on this? Right now I believe that the 69's, at least, got the closed 4 T-Handle.

See "closed 4" attached which also appears to have HURST spelled with a larger font and a slightly different shape where the fingers fit vs the open 4 handle.

[johnta1]

I think there were a couple threads on this?

[johnta1]

Probably need HFR on this one.



I found some but most were on Firebird ball handle.

try these:

T handle shifter

T Handle Shifter

[Bet Winner]

I've seen both answers on supposedly original cars, but the 69 owner said the closed 4 and the 70 owner said the open 4. Maybe it did change.

I am not sure even after looking at other threads.

I cannot open your links for some reason.

[johnta1]

Try it now, it somehow added a bunch of crap in it.

[robz]

and this link as well:


Original Judge 4 spd t-handle value?

[Bet Winner]

I have paid close attention to this thru the years and have read those threads. Here is the info that I have found with the source:

1. Pete Serio--closed 4 is the first design and open 4 is later. The open 4 was later sold over the counter also.
2. Chris Casperson--there were at least 2 designs.
3. GTOnly70--his original 69 Judge came with the closed 4.
4. Roundportponchos--his 70 Judge came with the open 4.
5. 2006 E-bay auction of an original T-handle (I printed and kept)--It came off of a 69 Judge and is the closed 4. This guy had quite a bit of information and was selling an obviously worn T-handle that looked authentic.
6. Per Ames Performance today (I called them to buy the closed 4 t-handle since PY sells the open 4)--He said that per the Restoration Guide, the open 4 is correct--apparently for all Judges. UGHHH--This is why I posted this thread.

My Tentative Conclusion:

There is some confusion since Hurst apparently had 2 designs. The closed 4 was apparently initially used on 69 Judges, and there was most likely a later running change to the open 4 design by Hurst. (The Restoration Guide must not be including enough detailed info--probably not a surprise.)

If anyone can add something factual to this, please do.

thanks

[marxjunk]

i had an early built car..it had a closed 4

ive also had some shifter assys and every t-handle ive owned had the closed..i sold a 69 assy to TOYSWEDO and i just cant remeber what it had,...just cant remeber, it was a long time ago, and i know it was out of an early built car too, cuz i took from the car

[LPete]

My July-built Fremont car has a closed 4. I believe it to be original.

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by LPete

My July-built Fremont car has a closed 4. I believe it to be original.

A 69 Judge--correct? (not 70 or 71?)

[LPete]

Originally Posted by Bet Winner

A 69 Judge--correct? (not 70 or 71?)

Sorry, yes, it's a '69.

[Jason67]

My early Pontiac built (Sept 69) 70 Judge has the open "4".

[Bet Winner]

Thanks, guys.

It sounds likely that MOST 69 Judges got the closed 4 and MOST 70 Judges (and all 71's I assume) got the open 4 T-Handle. (Did I hedge enough? lol)

Performance Years has the open 4 T-Handle if you want that one.

[Judge273]

My 71 Judge is open 4 if that helps...

[Sidponcho]

That "R" is stamped offset and crooked

[limejudge69]

Originally Posted by Bet Winner

Thanks, guys.

It sounds likely that MOST 69 Judges got the closed 4 and MOST 70 Judges (and all 71's I assume) got the open 4 T-Handle. (Did I hedge enough? lol)

Performance Years has the open 4 T-Handle if you want that one.

Michael, I'm thinking there may have been a late 69 year changeover. My June built Pontiac plant 69 Judge had the open 4. As I stated in an aforementioned post, the early 69 ads clearly show a closed 4. Maybe Hurst was scrambling to fill both factory and aftermarket orders.

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by limejudge69

Michael, I'm thinking there may have been a late 69 year changeover. My June built Pontiac plant 69 Judge had the open 4. As I stated in an aforementioned post, the early 69 ads clearly show a closed 4. Maybe Hurst was scrambling to fill both factory and aftermarket orders.

Then you are probably right about the late 69 changeover--probably a little different time at each factory. Thanks

[peppergreen]

What handle does the 69 Judge have in the the commercial with Paul Revere and the Raiders? Closed 4?

[robz]

Originally Posted by peppergreen

What handle does the 69 Judge have in the the commercial with Paul Revere and the Raiders? Closed 4?

Yes, closed...See it at 0:18 secs in link below...Totally different handle though..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RpbhufIcbQ