#21  
Old 12-04-2008, 10:37 AM
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Seam-sealer, undercoat...it works well, I have one at my shop.
Back in the day's I worked at a dealership some cars were shipped with a transit coat, and there was a product that you sprayed on then pressure washed off to remove it. I would think that if it were still made that would be a good alternative for someone wanting to preserve whatever is beneath the undercoating, it didn't harm paint..DW

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  #22  
Old 12-05-2008, 03:35 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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ahh

so you're planning towards trying to remove the UC and leave the under finish unharmed.

And probably laying on your back under the car jacked up on big stands. I've done undersides that way - but they didn't have any UCoat. And we painted them.
You'll probably get sick and die doing all that. j/K

Its a good thing your 2 wives live in seperate levels of your house.

I've used odorless mineral spirits for years as a grunge cleaner and degreaser.
It works great... and its OdorLess (gift from God). It will dry out your skin a bit after prolonged exposure. (gloves)

If it will work on that UCoat in beginning, mid or final stages - it won't pull off any factory finish. And you won't get further drain bamage from over exposure trapped in a basement full of fumes.

If its held up decent all theses years, its probably a good enough product that its also chemical resistant by design as well. The crappy stuff would be flaking off in lots of places by now.

Window ice scrapers, wooden paddles, plastic razor blades in a razor scraper, etc.. will be good tools after you find out what softens it the best for you.

Too bad you can't turn car upside down and let saturated rags soften it.
jimwangers has an old trick for that

Best luck to you Man


Last edited by Baron Von Zeppelin; 12-05-2008 at 03:40 AM.
  #23  
Old 12-05-2008, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin View Post
You'll probably get sick and die doing all that. j/K

Its a good thing your 2 wives live in seperate levels of your house.

drain bamage

Window ice scrapers, wooden paddles, plastic razor blades in a razor scraper, etc.. will be good tools after you find out what softens it the best for you.
I already have drain bamage so no biggie............

Wife #1 is not allowed to touch wife #2. Or do I have #1 an #2 reversed? Afterall, I make all the money and wear the pants in the family.

I though of the plastic ice scraper and have the perfect one to use. I haven't seen a wooden paddle in a long time.............................................. have to look for one.

I really did not believe that you guys would think that this would be so extremely difficult, but I may be surprised. I never do anything the easy way anyway. Maybe you guys could say a prayer for me....................................

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Last edited by Bet Winner; 12-05-2008 at 03:58 PM.
  #24  
Old 12-23-2008, 08:06 PM
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I finally got to work on this for a couple of hours today. I've tried several things including Mr. Muscle Oven Cleaner, kerosene, lacquer thinner, mineral spirits and a heat gun. The lacquer thinner took the factory primer off. But what works is a powerful heat gun and plastic putty knives followed by the odorless mineral spirits. I usually have the metal so hot that the mineral spirits leaves a little smoke when I wipe with it--probably catch myself on fire............

So far, if the car was undercoated, the factory finish is still there. The car appears to have carousel red paint at all the places of the body that hang down. After I get a little further, I'll try to post a picture.

Baron, thanks for your advice below--you're right.

What I would like to use instead of the plastic putty knives is some of this company's plastic scrapers. They make these for Boeing, other airlines and for NASA. (The large black plastic scraper is used on the space shuttle.) But an order has to be for $40 worth of scrapers. They are about $3 or $4 each. Please let me know if anyone wants to split an order.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin View Post
I've used odorless mineral spirits for years as a grunge cleaner and degreaser.
It works great... and its OdorLess (gift from God). It will dry out your skin a bit after prolonged exposure. (gloves)

If it will work on that UCoat in beginning, mid or final stages - it won't pull off any factory finish. And you won't get further drain bamage from over exposure trapped in a basement full of fumes.

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  #25  
Old 12-23-2008, 10:27 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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On the wooden paddles, i meant paint paddles. lol
Maybe the HD ones for stirring 5gal paint buckets.
Wooden kitchen utensils might be good too.(spatula or modified big spoon)

A spatula for a teflon frying pan might be good tool.
The plastic razor blades are pretty sturdy as well, just need a good blade holder.

The odorless mineral spirits are a real gift.

  #26  
Old 12-24-2008, 12:58 AM
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I've never seen plastic razor blades, but that does sound good.

I need to get the exhaust system out--will have to cut the muffler clamps. I think an attachment on my small grinder will do the trick.

The mineral spirits is rubbing some of the carousel red off since it is so thin, but the original primer is holding up pretty well. What underside I see now is mostly primer with a little black. If I had the exhaust, driveshaft and brake/fuel lines out, and the car jacked up higher, it would go quicker than I anticipated. I'll have to work on that after Christmas.

This stuff looks like tar when it gets hot.

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  #27  
Old 12-24-2008, 02:09 AM
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Plastic razor blades are a pretty trick item.
They aren't sharp edged like a real razor.
All of them I've ever had have been Red.

Out by the airport area off 40 there is an Akzo Nobel/Sikkens automotive paint store that carries them. Think its called Automotive Paint Supply.

Try letting the surface cool some more before cleaning up with the spirits, and 'maybe' it won't pull off the CR overspray as much. I'm surprised it pulls the CR off. Its about the mildest solvent there is. Wax and grease remover/final prep solvent might be half a hair milder dependent on brand, but the vapor will be 10 times stronger.

R&M brand (BASF), 900 Pre Kleeno, is the mildest I've experienced.
It might not even do the job.

  #28  
Old 12-24-2008, 10:20 AM
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i just did this recently. i did it by hand & took me 3 weeks to get perfect. The body guy at the shop stated i was nutts!!!!! The car looks brandy new now. It was however a night mare. i used a small propane torch & a scraper, youll get the bulk off but its all the nooks & crannies that are a bitch to get to. I than used a die grinder with the .5 thick ruff sanding cookies.... i must have used no lie about 40 of them at $9 a sander. when finished the under side was bright & shiny. If i were to do it all over again I'D sand blast it. BUT you must remove all trapped sand as that will rust

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  #29  
Old 12-26-2008, 03:27 PM
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Good News: I was able to find the original owner again--he's in Boones Mill, VA--really nice guy. I spoke to him in the early 80's. He said that the undercoating was done by the dealership when he purchased the car. I knew that it was done early because it is a "hodge podge" of the red-brown primer/carousel red/black under the car under the undercoating.

I hope to continue on this weekend with the driveshaft out...................................

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  #30  
Old 12-26-2008, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BetWinner
(12/01/08)...I have removed the gas tank...
find a build sheet ?? remnants or fragments ?

  #31  
Old 12-27-2008, 12:02 AM
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find a build sheet ?? remnants or fragments ?

No, dang it--it's a Baltimore car.

But I did ask the orignal owner today when I called if he had any old pictures/memoriblia that I could copy or have. He did not remember any over the phone but later called to say that he had a "GTO jacket with a Judge emblem on it that he would send...." I doubt that it is an original Judge jacket, but I'll take a picture if it is--and wet my pants! He was/is a Pontiac guy. He traded in a 66 GTO for my Judge in March 1969 and still owns a 67 Firebird so he may have purchased a Judge jacket--we'll see. I'll probably offer to pay him something if it is a Judge jacket.

Oh, I found some plastic razor blades today so I'll try to hit it some tomorrow.

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  #32  
Old 02-08-2009, 10:31 PM
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This is interesting to me, so I'll post a couple of pictures. I have the car on stands so it is hard to get a decent picture--sorry.

The first two show the area of the body under the gas tank. This area was sprayed primarily with the redish brown primer with carousel red sprayed on the areas that hang down. There is very little black here.

In the last picture I attempted to show the carousel red at the edge of the body. (Those are smudges on my camera lense that look like finger prints.) I cannot get far enough away for a good shot--sorry. I have cleaned a 3-foot wide area across the body at the front of the quarters--have not worked on this too much. It is almost all the redish brown primer with carousel red on the side of the body and areas that hang lower. There may be some light black overspray here, but not much. So far, it looks like my car is correct with the primer and carousel red.

I have rubbed thru the primer in a couple of spots to reveal the black dye used on the bare metal body--just as motorcitymusclecar has described. I have never rubbed thru the black dye--tough stuff.

That's my saga so far. I'm concentrating on removing the undercoating from the frame so I can paint it and then back to the body to remove more undercoating.
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  #33  
Old 02-09-2009, 08:55 AM
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My Firebird was Ziebarted when new and Im blessed with that.
I went to the Ziebart place when they were still open and told them I wanted to remove the undercoating....Gee never had anyone come in here asking that....
The manager told me mineral spirits worked about the best but have since found WD-40 to be a little kinder.
It all comes off and underside looks like new with all the plating still on bolts lines etc.
I also sharpened up a large thick paint paddle on the bench grinder and it will scrape but not gouge the paint.



Last edited by Cammer-6; 02-09-2009 at 09:01 AM.
  #34  
Old 10-11-2009, 05:56 PM
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Have the rear out and attached a picture to show the original pink inspection paint on the "pig tails" put on with a paint brush. If you read Smoke Signals a couple of months ago, this was described in the factory article. Since Little Wife collects paint chips from Lowe's to change colors in different rooms in the house, I thought I could play that game. Eddie Baurer Home Hibiscus Pink (color EB4-2) matches the original color perfectly!!!....and a sample can is just $4.00--how can you beat that? This is the original pink paint in the picture. I took this picture before stripping it off.

I also attached a picture of the rear end cover. Since most of it was painted, I'll use black for it. But my brake backing plates received almost no paint whatsoever, and I have pictures to prove it. I may leave them bare and spray Boshield on them.

With working on this about 5 hours a week, I'll probably have another installment in the spring................
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Last edited by Bet Winner; 10-11-2009 at 06:29 PM.
  #35  
Old 12-27-2009, 10:54 PM
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Wanted to post to let people know how well the propane torch worked on the undercoating today. I bought a propane torch yesterday with a 5 foot hose to try to hurry this up a bit. If you heat up a section of the undercoating with it and use a fresh plastic razor blade, the undercoating will come off all at once with little residue. I had never used one, but this is the way to go--I know a couple of guys already recommended it.

I am going to have to sand down and paint some of the area above the exhause pipes on the body since it was not undercoated well. All of this area was red oxide.

Also, just got my bumper rechromed by TriCity in TN--looks much nicer than the cheap job done when the car was painted.

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  #36  
Old 12-27-2009, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Bet Winner View Post
I want to preserve the finish underneath if the rest of it is nice.
I don't get it.

You "want to preserve the finish underneath?"

As in "I don't want to booger up the original paint underneath?"

But if, as you stated previously, you're doing a concours restoration, then who cares what you do to the original finish underneath? You'll be repainting it anyway.


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  #37  
Old 12-28-2009, 01:17 AM
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I spent about 20 hours under neath witha scraper and a large screw driver....then used an air grinder with lots of steel brushes to clean it up......Then painted it...took out 37.5 lbs of Ziebart from underneath, but the floors were perfect no rust

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  #38  
Old 12-28-2009, 11:23 AM
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But if, as you stated previously, you're doing a concours restoration, then who cares what you do to the original finish underneath? You'll be repainting it anyway.
I want to leave most of it. It will not be as nice as fresh paint. But hopefully it will look more correct than cars that are painted black. There is little black paint under my car--just red oxide and a little body color.

If you don't agree/approve, that's fine with me. One of the gold cars at this year's convention was undercoated from my understanding. Mine will look better after the undercoatinig is removed.

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  #39  
Old 12-28-2009, 05:15 PM
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If you don't agree/approve, that's fine with me.
I didn't say that I didn't agree. I said that I didn't understand.

In fact, I still don't.

Are you saying that you expect a concours-level restoration if you leave the underneath of your body "as is" without refinishing it?

Your statement seemed to allude to this.

Until now.


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  #40  
Old 12-28-2009, 05:50 PM
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Are you saying that you expect a concours-level restoration if you leave the underneath of your body "as is" without refinishing it?
I don't know how it will turn out yet. I have uncovered portions of it so far. The portion in the middle of the car looks like it was just shot. The paint just in front of the gas tank near the rear wheels and behind the gas tank will be sanded down and refinished. The undercoating was not as thick here.

Having the underbody painted "better" than factory is not my goal--just done as factory so you draw your own conclusion--especially with no written concours standards.

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