[Bet Winner]

This apparently preceded the 2 versions of the block that connected the cables. I have seen at least one other car that had this, and it was also a Baltimore car.

Sorry, only the connector itself is clear in the picture.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Wow, fascinating. An authenticating kind of original huh.

I've only seen the iron block connector with allen set screws.

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Wow, fascinating. An authenticating kind of original huh.

Yes, I know the original owner, and I have had this car since 1979. I've seen this in a picture on at least one other car. I also believe that Dr Doug's 69 Judge may have this set up also. I believe his is a February Baltimore Judge. It is hard to tell from the pictures Dr. Doug posted, but it looked like it.

It will be interesting to see if other factories used this at all. I have spoken to at least one national judge who has never seen this. It was described as rare by at least one person, but I have no specific evidence.

Well, off to see the family for Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving everybody!

[steve v]

I have one of those in my RA parts box, unfortunately I have no idea what plant the car was built at that it came from since the car was part out 25+ years ago.
I've had the same response from knowledgeable Judge owners that had never seen one before.

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by steve v

I have one of those in my RA parts box, unfortunately I have no idea what plant the car was built at that it came from since the car was part out 25+ years ago.
I've had the same response from knowledgeable Judge owners that had never seen one before.

Yes, I have received some blank looks. Do you have the washer, bolt and nut? They are probably not unique other than the bolt, and the bolt head cannot be seen when installed, but it would be nice to have the set-up intact. And please let me know if you would like to sell it. It might be nice to have another.

My car may be a little odd, and I can see myself having debates with judges at a national show about this cable connector, my original license plate is the wide 1968 style with the top lip that bends down painted silver, the original distributor is a 1111941, and the car's rear was painted with the blackout basically from underneath instead of from behind as most are (and I would like to duplicate this). The axle housings are painted equally in the front and back about half way up with about 2/3 of the rear cover painted.

[Bet Winner]

I mentioned Dr Doug's Baltimore Judge previously. I found the picture that I was remembering and have it posted below. It does show the same set-up with one end slightly bent. If you enlarge the picture some, it is easy to see.

The link below has some info about this Judge. The owner before Dr Doug states that this cable connector was used for the first 3 weeks of production. This seems reasonable, but I don't know how he would know that.

He also states that Dr Doug's car is in the first 40 Judges produced. But it is a Feb Judge (I forget which week) and did not receive the GTO emblem on the dash so it was definitely not in the very first zone cars that were shipped from the zone lots starting 2/5/69 and 2/6/69.

http://ultimategto.com/cgi-bin/showc...ud/69j_00197_1

[robz]

Originally Posted by Bet Winner

The link below has some info about this Judge. The owner before Dr Doug states that this cable connector was used for the first 3 weeks of production. This seems reasonable, but I don't know how he would know that.

Surprised no one has a service bulletin to backup this modification...

[ahub421]

I had an NOS one these odd style connectors and decided to put it on a car I took to last years nationals and yes there was debate with those who noticed it as most folks had never seen one. I am a believer that this type must have been Ponitac's first attempt because it really sucks. It's a real pain just to get both the cables adjusted and held still long enough to crank down the nut but no matter what I tried it won't hold the cables if you pull the knob hard at all. Odd but not operable.

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by ahub421

I had an NOS one these odd style connectors and decided to put it on a car I took to last years nationals and yes there was debate with those who noticed it as most folks had never seen one. I am a believer that this type must have been Ponitac's first attempt because it really sucks. It's a real pain just to get both the cables adjusted and held still long enough to crank down the nut but no matter what I tried it won't hold the cables if you pull the knob hard at all. Odd but not operable.

In 30+ years, I have never had one of the cables come loose when pulling/pushing on the knob. Do you have the washer installed? The nut holds the washer against the cables so they won't move on the stamped metal bracket. The stamped bracket has slots/holes for the cables to fit into. Mine is very secure. Let me know if you need to know what size the washer is, and I'll take it apart to measure.

The only problem I have ever had is if I adjust the flappers to come down almost flat when pulling the knob, I cannot close the flappers without putting my hand in a scoop to pull the flappers more vertical. Only then, can I push the knob causing the flappers to close with a loud pop.

The metal bracket has the piece that extends downward on both sides to allow someone to open/close the flappers from under the hood. The only problem I have ever had is closing--but that is a big enough problem of course.

[redgto366]

I also have this style of bracket on my Baltimore built 69 GTO RAIII convertible.

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by redgto366

I also have this style of bracket on my Baltimore built 69 GTO RAIII convertible.

Please tell us the build date (month and week) for your car. I suspect it is February or earlier, but please let us know.

I have now seen or heard of 4 ram air cars with this bracket--all Baltimore. It will be neat to see if any other cars show up with this bracket from other factories.

[Rallye II]

My Judge is a Baltimore car as well with a build date of 02D. I has the same style cable connector as yours Bet Winner. In all the years I have had my Judge (28) I have not seen this type of connector. Maybe it is a plant specific (Baltimore) item.

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by Rallye II

My Judge is a Baltimore car as well with a build date of 02D. I has the same style cable connector as yours Bet Winner. In all the years I have had my Judge (28) I have not seen this type of connector. Maybe it is a plant specific (Baltimore) item.

Rallye II, thanks so much for responding! We have had our cars for a long time. I see that Baltimore used this a little longer than I suspected. Your cars makes 5 so far--all Baltimore. It may be Baltimore only. At least we have been able to document this connector as correct for early Baltimore Ram Air cars.

Any pic that you or anyone else could attach would be nice. My bracket is painted black, the bolt/nut are silver cad or silver zinc, the washer is plated magnesium phosphate or black cad--I need to look more closely at them.

I also have a few other unusual things about my car that I may post in another thread to learn more about early cars such as a one-piece hose from the lower ram air pan to the upper pan--no plastic connector in it, no star washers on the upper ram air pan bolts, wider 68 style gas door, etc.

[redgto366]

Sorry it took so long to respond, my car is an 03C Baltimore built GTO not a Judge. I do not think that this bracket is a Baltimore exclusive part and its obvious its not a Judge exclusive item either. The last time I had a discussion about this was about 20 years ago at a New England POCI convention when Steve Ames asked me about it on my car. My response at the time was I thought it was used on all 69 cars. My reasoning was this bracket is used in the illustration in the 69 Pontiac service manual and the block is illustrated in the 70 service manual. My thinking on this is if there was a replacement it was the block. I know guys restoring 69 Judges 20-25 years ago that would cut the ends off the dash and flapper cables that were original to the car (because these cables had a 90 bend at the end) because the only part available was the block. So this would also mean that the dash control and flapper cables are exlusive to this bracket. Very interesting subject, I would like to hear from more people on this one.

[redgto366]

That image is located in my Pontiac service manual on page 6B-3 along with a 5 step cable adjustment procedure. This is an original 69 manual that has no mention of the block style connector. Thought I would just add this in case anyone wanted to get a clearer image of the picture I took.

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by redgto366

That image is located in my Pontiac service manual on page 6B-3 along with a 5 step cable adjustment procedure. This is an original 69 manual that has no mention of the block style connector. Thought I would just add this in case anyone wanted to get a clearer image of the picture I took.

I do not remember seeing this in my manual, but I will look tonight. The first service manuals were most likely done early in the model year so if there was an early switch to the block, the manual would have been printed this way I assume.

I understand your point about cutting the cables and switching to the block because there is no repo of this connector if it has been lost/damaged. (The cables do have a bend in them to allow them to attach to the bracket correctly.) I hate to see our cars become generic when they were built differently. Some start to believe that only one way is original when that is certainly not the case.

Thanks!

[Judge273]

Looks like an repop part that could be done? Early Judges need these? I have block connector with early bracket on a 04A Balt 69 Judge.

I would buy one....

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by Judge273

Looks like an repop part that could be done? Early Judges need these? I have block connector with early bracket on a 04A Balt 69 Judge.

I believe there was a switch to the block type at some point in 69, but I don't know when. I am fairly certain that early Baltimore Judges used this--maybe other factories--but I have not been able to determine when a switch was made yet. I would not change to this bracket/bolt/nut/washer which uses cables with specifically bent ends unless you have a January/Feb/March Baltimore Ram Air car--probably earlier than January also. We have found nothing later yet and no proof that other factories used this at all yet.

Thanks to redgto366 for pointing out the different cable ends.

Other documentation is welcome from others!

[robz]

Originally Posted by redgto366

Sorry it took so long to respond, my car is an 03C Baltimore built GTO not a Judge. I do not think that this bracket is a Baltimore exclusive part and its obvious its not a Judge exclusive item either. The last time I had a discussion about this was about 20 years ago at a New England POCI convention when Steve Ames asked me about it on my car. My response at the time was I thought it was used on all 69 cars. My reasoning was this bracket is used in the illustration in the 69 Pontiac service manual and the block is illustrated in the 70 service manual. My thinking on this is if there was a replacement it was the block. I know guys restoring 69 Judges 20-25 years ago that would cut the ends off the dash and flapper cables that were original to the car (because these cables had a 90 bend at the end) because the only part available was the block. So this would also mean that the dash control and flapper cables are exlusive to this bracket. Very interesting subject, I would like to hear from more people on this one.

Looked at my reprint of 1969 Service Manual (taken from a 1971 version), and it has same pic/early style connector....

[Judge273]

Thanks Bet Winner:

I just checked mine is a 03A Balt built Judge. It has original ram air cables. Maybe too late for early connector??