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#1
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Judge T-Handle--Closed vs Open 4
I have read that the "closed 4" Judge T-Handle was the first design and the open 4 was used later and sold over the counter by Pontiac. I believed that the closed 4 was the design used on production cars (at least early Judges), but I just had one of the vendors selling the closed 4 t-handle tell me just the opposite. (In other words, he stated that his closed 4 t-handle was not the correct assembly line part. He believes the open 4 is correct.)
Does anyone have the facts on this? Right now I believe that the 69's, at least, got the closed 4 T-Handle. See "closed 4" attached which also appears to have HURST spelled with a larger font and a slightly different shape where the fingers fit vs the open 4 handle.
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My Wife: "I thought I married a sophisticated business man, but what I actually got was a redneck fisherman with muscle cars." Some people know all of their rights, but none of their obligations. |
#2
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I think there were a couple threads on this?
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
#3
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Probably need HFR on this one.
I found some but most were on Firebird ball handle. try these: T handle shifter T Handle Shifter
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates Last edited by johnta1; 11-09-2013 at 04:30 PM. |
#4
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I've seen both answers on supposedly original cars, but the 69 owner said the closed 4 and the 70 owner said the open 4. Maybe it did change.
I am not sure even after looking at other threads. I cannot open your links for some reason.
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My Wife: "I thought I married a sophisticated business man, but what I actually got was a redneck fisherman with muscle cars." Some people know all of their rights, but none of their obligations. |
#5
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Try it now, it somehow added a bunch of crap in it.
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
#6
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1969 GTO 400-4speed, H/T 1969 GTO 400-RAIII-4speed, Convertible 1969 Grand Prix SJ |
#7
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I have paid close attention to this thru the years and have read those threads. Here is the info that I have found with the source:
1. Pete Serio--closed 4 is the first design and open 4 is later. The open 4 was later sold over the counter also. 2. Chris Casperson--there were at least 2 designs. 3. GTOnly70--his original 69 Judge came with the closed 4. 4. Roundportponchos--his 70 Judge came with the open 4. 5. 2006 E-bay auction of an original T-handle (I printed and kept)--It came off of a 69 Judge and is the closed 4. This guy had quite a bit of information and was selling an obviously worn T-handle that looked authentic. 6. Per Ames Performance today (I called them to buy the closed 4 t-handle since PY sells the open 4)--He said that per the Restoration Guide, the open 4 is correct--apparently for all Judges. UGHHH--This is why I posted this thread. My Tentative Conclusion: There is some confusion since Hurst apparently had 2 designs. The closed 4 was apparently initially used on 69 Judges, and there was most likely a later running change to the open 4 design by Hurst. (The Restoration Guide must not be including enough detailed info--probably not a surprise.) If anyone can add something factual to this, please do. thanks
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My Wife: "I thought I married a sophisticated business man, but what I actually got was a redneck fisherman with muscle cars." Some people know all of their rights, but none of their obligations. Last edited by Bet Winner; 11-09-2013 at 09:01 PM. |
#8
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i had an early built car..it had a closed 4
ive also had some shifter assys and every t-handle ive owned had the closed..i sold a 69 assy to TOYSWEDO and i just cant remeber what it had,...just cant remeber, it was a long time ago, and i know it was out of an early built car too, cuz i took from the car
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Mark.. The Goat whisperer "I spent a lot of my money on booze, crazy women, and fast cars. The rest I just squandered." |
The Following User Says Thank You to marxjunk For This Useful Post: | ||
#9
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My July-built Fremont car has a closed 4. I believe it to be original.
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Lee Peterson ------------- "I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition...!" '69 Cameo White RA III Judge, 4 speed, owned since 1977 -- my first car. |
#10
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A 69 Judge--correct? (not 70 or 71?)
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My Wife: "I thought I married a sophisticated business man, but what I actually got was a redneck fisherman with muscle cars." Some people know all of their rights, but none of their obligations. |
#11
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__________________
Lee Peterson ------------- "I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition...!" '69 Cameo White RA III Judge, 4 speed, owned since 1977 -- my first car. |
#12
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My early Pontiac built (Sept 69) 70 Judge has the open "4".
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Jason |
#13
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Thanks, guys.
It sounds likely that MOST 69 Judges got the closed 4 and MOST 70 Judges (and all 71's I assume) got the open 4 T-Handle. (Did I hedge enough? lol) Performance Years has the open 4 T-Handle if you want that one.
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My Wife: "I thought I married a sophisticated business man, but what I actually got was a redneck fisherman with muscle cars." Some people know all of their rights, but none of their obligations. |
#14
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My 71 Judge is open 4 if that helps...
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Mike/Illinois |
#15
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That "R" is stamped offset and crooked
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#16
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Michael, I'm thinking there may have been a late 69 year changeover. My June built Pontiac plant 69 Judge had the open 4. As I stated in an aforementioned post, the early 69 ads clearly show a closed 4. Maybe Hurst was scrambling to fill both factory and aftermarket orders.
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If it ain't broke, fix it 'till it is |
#17
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Quote:
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My Wife: "I thought I married a sophisticated business man, but what I actually got was a redneck fisherman with muscle cars." Some people know all of their rights, but none of their obligations. |
#18
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What handle does the 69 Judge have in the the commercial with Paul Revere and the Raiders? Closed 4?
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"Drive a GTO".......Iggy Pop-Lust for Life |
#19
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Quote:
Yes, closed...See it at 0:18 secs in link below...Totally different handle though.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RpbhufIcbQ
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1969 GTO 400-4speed, H/T 1969 GTO 400-RAIII-4speed, Convertible 1969 Grand Prix SJ |
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