[70RAlll]

And the grey ones,like the one you have, were not service replacement units. I have 3-4 in old GM boxes,linked to the same part number(2 of mine are the complete assembly so different part number) If you look at my pictures, the middle picture shows another Pontiac quadrajet that I was finishing that had the exact same grey/black unit on it.. and it is not painted, it is molded in color if memory serves me tonight.. but I do know without a doubt that silver grey/black unit was a production unit..

[Judge273]

My NOS 0270 late 69 date is also yellow with black back. It has that surface like BW too. Definitely not painted.

[Kenth]

1967 V8 vacuum break #7033871, All.
1968-69 V8 vacuum break#7034736, All, (except 8270, 8273, 9270 and 9273 carbs).
1968-69 V8 vacuum break#7035493, with 8270, 8273, 9270 and 9273 carbs.
1970 V8 vacuum break #7026214 All, (except 0270, 0273, 0570 and 0573 carbs).
1970 V8 vacuum break #7038239 with 0270, 0273, 0570 and 0573 carbs.

This is from Delco Rochester Bulletin 9-C

[Kenth]

Originally Posted by Bet Winner

Pictured is the correct pulloff for I believe all the 8 cylinder 1968 Firebird and Tempest cars including the early 1969 Ram Air III carbs that used the 1968 numbered carb (7028273/0). The box also says it is correct for 1967 Tempest and Firebird 8 cylinder cars so that may be true also.

Did the 1969 Ram Air IV carbs use a different pulloff? And did 1970 cars use a similar pulloff or begin using that white generic looking one I see everywhere? (I have always wondered if the white one was ever used on an original 68/69/70 carb.)

My 1969 RA III 7028273 uses this pulloff and my 68 Firebird 400 Auto does also, but the Firebird's has a broken edge so I wanted a new one.

I have never had enough original carbs to figure all this out.

Thanks

According to the Delco Rochester Bulletin 9-C #7038237 is the correct vacuum break for all 1970 Buick Quadrajets.
NO Pontiac application for this pull-off at the time, December 1969 .

[70RAlll]

I guess PY's parts look up and my 1972 dated Parts Catalogue are both incorrect then.. They both have the exact same listings for the '8237.. And FWIW, the 70 RA yellow/black pulloff was used on Buicks as well,I pulled one off a NOS Buick dual pull-off setup. It actually used a grey/black on one side and the yellow /black on the other if memory serves me.. Definitely had the yellow, that is why I bought the bUick set up..Does your source show this??

[70RAlll]

also, lookup shows '5493 as T6-F6 4BC, not V8.. And 7042595 for the 70 yellow/black RamAir control-which is not shown anywhere else which makes sense since that was a 1 yr only usage for Pontiac.. GM used these vac. breaks all across lines, Buick used dual pull off set up's so it is easy to believe that the '8237 shows up for buick..as I stated, I took one off a buick part that had the silver unit and the yellow/black . Actually pretty sure I still have the Buick part with just the silver pulloff left.... I think most here in the US are fine with the parts catalogue numbers. Seen these numbered and colored pulloffs on too many original carbs..

The 72 Parts book I have shows 67-69 T6-F6 4BC as of 1972 now as '8239,PY's look up that I posted above is from a 71 parts book, so possibly they changed the part numbers vs what you are showing from a SB in 69.
I know the 68 RAll's had a SB changing the pull off to the '8239..I do know your SB showing 7038239 as the 1970 RA is wrong because I placed a NOS 7038239 unit on a 8273 Q Jet I restored/tuned for a RAll Firebird .That part number is a solid black pull off,not the yellow/black that we all know is correct for 1970 RA Qjets.Plus when I bought that 7038239...I found a total of 3 of that NOS part number from an obscure GM dealership which I bought all 3. The '2595 is the yellow/black unit for '70 RA cars,not the '8239...Not saying your SB isn't real, just know what I held in my hand and what the NOS GM boxes (not 1 but 3) had in them.

Also, your list from the SB show's 7033871 as all 4BC for 1967, PY's look up shows that number as well, but the 72 parts book shows the grey '8237..


'6124 2 port gold metal all 70 x RA
'8237 silver/black all 400 67-69 xRA
'8239 black/black all 68-early 69 RA
'2595 yellow/black all 70 RA poss. late 69 RA

Oh and I did Chuck Henleys 69 RAV GTO dealer race car(factory built w/RAIV) quadrajet '9273 and he had a yellow/black on the carb he sent me. sure looked original to me..

Not trying to argue, just somehow I have ended up with a huge number of the RA cars quadrajets to restore over the years and these numbers I listed are what I have seen. I could easily be wrong as I was not a line worker or a Rochester engineer in the 1960's..Maybe ,by some strange twist of fate ,all the carbs I have seen somehow ended up with the same numbered pull off's as the ones I have found in NOS boxes?? The <70 grey/black units are what most restorers are using on <71 Pontiacs as correct..


Eitherway...I know what I see here in the US on the 100's I have done.. too late and loosing interest in this thread.. Put what you want on your carb..My numbers can be seen in NOS boxes, never seen the numbers (except the 8237 and 6214) you show.

[Kenth]

From 1970 Pontiac Master Parts Catalog, November 1 1969:

70 All Ram Air-III or IV #7038239 3.45 CONTROL, vac. break (Roch.)
70 T/8 455 4 B.C. #7038239 3.45 CONTROL, vac. break (w/hood inlet)

This info copies the info from my Delco Rochester Manual.

So, now i have presented info, at the beginning of production, from the factory that made the carbs and info from the company (Pontiac) that sold them.

No indication of color code, original 7038239´s may very well been yellow/black while over the counter units were all black.

We all know parts got revised later on and application for a certain part-# may vary.

Maybe you just have to look in the right books?

[carbking]

It is very easy to misunderstand information presented in either the Pontiac Master Parts books, or especially information presented by aftermarket vendors.

The information presented in the Pontiac Master parts books was information that was MOSTLY (not always) correct at the time of publication (anyone got any 7040279 carbs for sale???).

Parts got modified because of issues, parts got obsoleted and replaced with FUNCTIONAL replacement numbers; thus more than one part might be listed at different times for the same application, ESPECIALLY with aftermarket vendors.

PONTIAC GENERALLY PRINTED TWO, SOMETIMES THREE DIFFERENT PRINTING OF THE MASTER PARTS BOOK IN THE SAME YEAR! Any of these may (or may not) list updated parts numbers.

Pontiac also printed supercession books. I do have a few of these.

Since Kenth has listed dates for the references he cites from the master parts books, I would consider these to be correct for the date listed.

If you really have to know that you are 100 percent correct, you need to find the original drawings for the part. These will contain specifications for the original finish. While I have a very few for Rochester, I do not have the ones for the choke pull-offs.

And one other consideration:

While I have never really done an in-depth study of the finishes used on the choke pull-offs, I HAVE done so on the plastic fast idle cams used on Q-Jets from 1965 through mid-1968. These were colored plastic. THE COLOR CHANGES WITH HEAT!

Black will change to blue or purple or even green
Tan will change to yellow
Red will fade to white
White will change to cream

So unless you have new old stock in the original package that you know has been in a box NOT exposed to extreme heat or maybe fluorescent (spelling) or ultraviolet light, be careful in making assumptions on molded colored plastics.

Jon.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

BW - does your 68 Bird have the sliver face CPO on it ?

I just cant recall ever seeing a silver faced CPO like that on a Pontiac carb.
All that means right now is - i just can't pull it from memory.

But have 2 67 GTO and 1 67 Bird carb i can get to without too much hassle in next day or two - and see what they have.
Same storage tub shows to list a 7028266 , and multiple various 70 Qjets.
All of these have been out of commission for 25-30 years minimum.
All or most will be bone stock virgins.

Have many others, but they will be too tough to get to anytime soon.

Superceding and homogenizing did happen across the boards on many parts just like Jon has noted.

[Bet Winner]

First let me say this: I knew this would be simple...............

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

BW - does your 68 Bird have the sliver face CPO on it ?

No, it looks like a light tan color--probably faded.

[6d7gto]

The yellow one that is correct for 1970 had an entirely different embossed number on the outer plastic (38842). Probably for late '69 as well. Very rare!

As for the new one in Bet's photo, the 32768 embossed in the plastic is correct for your RAIII December carb (in my opinion for what it's worth) but the inside stamping on the metal pull is incorrect. Instead of 38166, it should be stamped 32764. The model number on the box should be 7035493 like someone already mentioned. Could be the replacement number however as someone also pointed out.

Michael, check out your original one on your carb when you get a chance...to see what those numbers are.

Most of the service replacement pull offs I see have the fancy RP font stamped into the metal pull...rather than the old style font shown in Bet Winner's picture. I'm guessing what you have is a NOS production unit but for Chevrolet or Buick?

[Judge273]

Here is my 70 late 69 dated 0270 carb in the box still. So, not exposed to heat and it's bright yellow.

[70RAlll]

Originally Posted by 6d7gto

The yellow one that is correct for 1970 had an entirely different embossed number on the outer plastic (38842). Probably for late '69 as well. Very rare!

As for the new one in Bet's photo, the 32768 embossed in the plastic is correct for your RAIII December carb (in my opinion for what it's worth) but the inside stamping on the metal pull is incorrect. Instead of 38166, it should be stamped 32764. The model number on the box should be 7035493 like someone already mentioned. Could be the replacement number however as someone also pointed out.
. This ebay item shows the exact same unit, but from a 703
Michael, check out your original one on your carb when you get a chance...to see what those numbers are.

Most of the service replacement pull offs I see have the fancy RP font stamped into the metal pull...rather than the old style font shown in Bet Winner's picture. I'm guessing what you have is a NOS production unit but for Chevrolet or Buick?

I believe these same units were used all over GM various lines. Look at this ebay auction, same grey/black unit,same 32678 on the plastic and the 38166,same numbering as the silver/black that started this thread .The pull off that started this thread,came from a 7038727 box, which shows up in various Parts Catalogues as a Pontiac number. This ebay number is 7038960 for a Chevy. Plus I have two large boxes,old tan/orange Rochecter boxes,with the two port Buick style,that had a metal pull off on one end, and a silver/black on the other end.These boxes are both part number 7038237, same as the single pulloff box shown in the beginning of this thread- strange..but evidence the part numbering system was screwed up...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-GM-Delco...cb9535&vxp=mtr


Here is another version of the silver/grey part # 7033841 Oldsmobile Toranado

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-1968-19...9b81f0&vxp=mtr


and another one with the 32768 stamp on front grey plastic, just for a Monte Carlo 1970 model,has white back/silver front


http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1970-70-...d4b447&vxp=mtr

guess my point is, these were used all over GM.The 32678 casting on the front,as we see here,was used all across GM lines' products, as were the silver/grey units . I will post pictures of the exact same #7038727 but for a Buick with 2 vacuum breaks including the metal mount that holds the CPO's and an equally old original box. SO, we can't really say the 32678 number identifys one of these as anything but a Rochester made unit. I still say the 70 RA yellow/black is a number unto itself,not the 8239 as 7038239 is listed for multiple years in Pontiac parts books,yet we have never seen the yellow unit used on Pontiacs sans the '70 RA's.. If 8239 was in fact the yellow unit, we should see it on many other units..plus I held 3 of that part number in my hand and it was black,just like an original I took off a 8737 Quadrajet.. SO my opinions,and that really all this is..our opinions, comes from experience holding NOS units from their old boxes-bought from GM delears directly, and from taking old worn out units from "as found" q jets and from examples like these 3 ebay auctions..Oh, and my parts book was copyrighted in 1971,72 model, so if they made big changes in part numbers they did it during the last past of 69 to the middle of 71.. Will post picktures of the 7038237 Buick boxes and double pull offs tomorrow.

[70RAlll]

To the guy who started this thread, here are copies from the April 1970 Rochester book showing the choke pulloff you started this thread with as the correct number,7038237, for 68-69 400 4bc engines. Same info my 1972 Parts Catalogue shows.

[RAIVJUDGE]

Originally Posted by Judge273

My NOS 0270 late 69 date is also yellow with black back. It has that surface like BW too. Definitely not painted.

Mike , that is exactly how my car's looks. Built 12/69. I have two of them

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by 70RAlll

To the guy who started this thread, here are copies from the April 1970 Rochester book showing the choke pulloff you started this thread with as the correct number,7038237, for 68-69 400 4bc engines. Same info my 1972 Parts Catalogue shows.

Thanks, Bill! That helps.

[70RAlll]

Originally Posted by Bet Winner

Thanks, Bill! That helps.

Yea.. this thread really got off on a tangent..I am probabaly to blame.. Knew your '8237 was the correct number and is accepted as the correct one by most.

By the way.. if anyone has a 71 HO and needs the correct pulloff with the blue piece I have a few in the box NOS units..

[Kenth]

1968-69 V8 vacuum break #7034736, All, (except 8270, 8273, 9270 and 9273 carbs).
8266, 8269 Delco Rochester Bulletin 9C-643 Date November 1967.
8262, 8263, 8268, 8267 Delco Rochester Bulletin 9C-644 Date March 1968.
8264, 8265, 8271 Delco Rochester Bulletin 9C-645 Date November 1967.
8274, 8275, 8276, 8277 Delco Rochester Bulletin 9C-646 Date November 1967.
9262, 9263 9268 Delco Rochester Bulletin 9C-650 Date November 1968.

1968-69 V8 vacuum break #7035493, with 8270, 8273, 9270 and 9273 carbs.
Delco Rochester Bulletin 9C-647 Date November 1968.

These bulletin dates are the closest to the original application i´ve found.

Later bulletines contains different numbers for some applications (service replacement units.)

[tekuhn]

Not sure if this helps, but I have a 1971 AC Delco Parts & Service book and it shows this:

1968 and 1969 Ram Air carbs 7028270, 7028273, 7029270, 7029273 all use 7038239 pulloff ("Vacuum Break Control Assembly")

1970 Ram Air carbs 7040270, 7040273, 7040570, 7040573 all use 7042595 pulloff.

I have a 7028273 with a silver/black pulloff but I do not know it's history to say whether it's original to the carb.

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by carbking

While I have never really done an in-depth study of the finishes used on the choke pull-offs, I HAVE done so on the plastic fast idle cams used on Q-Jets from 1965 through mid-1968. These were colored plastic. THE COLOR CHANGES WITH HEAT!

Black will change to blue or purple or even green
Tan will change to yellow
Red will fade to white
White will change to cream

So unless you have new old stock in the original package that you know has been in a box NOT exposed to extreme heat or maybe fluorescent (spelling) or ultraviolet light, be careful in making assumptions on molded colored plastics.

Jon.

Well, I have an NOS #38764 fast idle cam which I believe is correct for 68-69 carbs. It is tan. The original on my '69 7028273 carb which also has a #38764 cam has a more orange look--but the color is close. Is the cam on my original RAIII carb the same cam (do these have different part numbers on the cam or do they all use the same part number and are distinguished by color?)?

Here is the NOS tan one--pic attached.