[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Ro riding along with Billy Schmitz while Woodward "Street Racing" the Royal '69 Judge before the introduction of the Judge.

Note that Ro can not remember, in Hot Rod Magazine Dec. 2001, what year he rode along with the Royal guys. You know it is this age thing that catchs up with all of us...Or is because we have done so much in our lives that it gets foggy after a while. Ya, that's it...LOL

Note that this was originally the Lime Light Green with white interior Ram Air IV, rear antenna, Press/ Engineering/ Mule/ Prototype (whatever you want to call this GTO) that has had different engines, paint, spoiler and Judge Stripes etc. This GTO hadn't recieved it's hotter engine set ups yet. The Blue GTO bObcat Ram Air V was the quicker of the two in this artcile.

Some one on another thread liked playing semantics with me: Mule/Prototype/press/engineering/test/evaluation car, so I'm covering my bases. After all I don't want to get it wrong if he comes to this thread.... LOL

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Here was the 69 Firebird 350/H.O. John Politzer et.al were asked to leave a East Coast event after their time trials where way below the NHRA record for the class. The car was actually running 11.80's. About a Second faster ten the record. This is why the Track Tech stated, I'm not sure what you guys have done to this car but, I'd hate to tear it down and find something. It was "HIGHLY" suggested they leave and not run eliminations and leave...now.

Note the ram air setup. Taking a hollowed out hood tac and putting it on the passenger's side of the hood.

Brian Balllish and Dave Warren put this combination together. This was a very efficient air pump. More so then a 400 cid.

John Delorean never wanted a 350 HO to run stronger then their 400. The 350 would kill sales of the 400.

Many magazine acceleration times where not the "real" times. So faster some slower. Ever wonder why your new car back in the day was never as fast as the magazines? Rarely, was your car as fast or faster then the magazines...LOL

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

How about the '65 GTO comparison tests where the test cars later became a Give-A-Way car and the other a part of the 1965 Geeto Tiger racing program with an Iris Mist and black top GTO.
This test has Jack "Doc" Watson driving the '65 GTO Gold with black top, gold Hurst Wheels and shifter. I showed you a picture earlier of this GTO with me and Jim Wangers on Woodward in 1993.

Sorry, my mistake. Defferent gold '65 GTO...

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Here is one of the camparsion tests of the '69 GTO's vs '65 Tri-power.
Last page one next post.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Last page.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

How about the '65 GTO comparison tests where the test cars later became a Give-A-Way car and the other a part of the 1965 Geeto Tiger racing program with an Iris Mist and black top GTO.
This test has Jack "Doc" Watson driving the '65 GTO Gold with black top, gold Hurst Wheels and shifter. I showed you a picture earlier of this GTO with me and Jim Wangers on Woodward in 1993.

I'm sorry, this is a different Gold '65 GTO that Jack "Doc" used it this test. Go figure it has been over 40 years. LOL

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Ro riding along with Billy Schmitz while Woodward "Street Racing" the Royal '69 Judge before the introduction of the Judge.

Note that Ro can not remember, in Hot Rod Magazine Dec. 2001, what year he rode along with the Royal guys. You know it is this age thing that catchs up with all of us...Or is because we have done so much in our lives that it gets foggy after a while. Ya, that's it...LOL

Note that this was originally the Lime Light Green with white interior Ram Air IV, rear antenna, Press/ Engineering/ Mule/ Prototype (whatever you want to call this GTO) that has had different engines, paint, spoiler and Judge Stripes etc. This GTO hadn't recieved it's hotter engine set ups yet. The Blue GTO bObcat Ram Air V was the quicker of the two in this artcile.

Some one on another thread liked playing semantics with me: Mule/Prototype/press/engineering/test/evaluation car, so I'm covering my bases. After all I don't want to get it wrong if he comes to this thread.... LOL

Also, these tests of this car as a Judge where done in the fall of 1968. The first 2,000 "Program" Judges where built in January, 1969 all in one color. After January any color you wanted could be ordered.

[Greg Reid]

Dr. Shiffer, you're not an optometrist or opthalmologist are you?
You're gonna blind me with all these articles and their small print!
Fascinating stuff though. I'm enjoying reading them!

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Greg,
Hey, I'm only a novice at this. Got to bear with me. After all I qualify for senior discounts. LOL
See if you can double click on the picture after you open it the first time. I find it move onto another screen and gives me a positive icon to enlarge, then a negitive icon to make smaller. Try and see if that works for you.
I have no idea how Keith Seymore enlarged my articles for me. May have to find something for him to do again....LOL
Eric

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

My '65 GTO 421 Tri-power Royal Bobcat in summer 1969. I had a opened the hood orniment and cut away the extra flashing and put on a ram air pan.

It wasn't until years later I realized that my GTO emblems on my quater panels are where the '64 GTO's had them.

Funny the color of my '65 GTO was Palmetto Green.

Who say's that the factory never makes mistakes. I have no idea if this is was a early production car. There was never any quarter panel damage noted on the car.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Some more famous people who raced on Woodward in my era.

They influenced me with my choice of a 57 Vette for street racing. It was like hot rod row In Berkely just a mile west of Woodward on 12 Mile Rd between Coolidge and Greenfield. Midwest Auto Parts,owner Ron Reader had the pictured '57 Vette with a George Delorean built Pontiac under the hood.

Booth and Aaron's, down the street building engines for every one. Berkley Auto Electric, friends with my father campained a '57 Vette too.

In the picture you will see Ron Reader owner of Midwest Auto Parts. The late Dave Kanners, raced Camaros and AMC their Hornets with Dick Arrons, Wally Booth and Richard Maskins. Ron Manicni best known for his Mopars.

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Greg,
Hey, I'm only a novice at this. Got to bear with me. After all I qualify for senior discounts. LOL
See if you can double click on the picture after you open it the first time. I find it move onto another screen and gives me a positive icon to enlarge, then a negitive icon to make smaller. Try and see if that works for you.
I have no idea how Keith Seymore enlarged my articles for me. May have to find something for him to do again....LOL
Eric

I have been enlarging them...that's the only way I could read them. I just have to use reading glasses. I'm in the over 50 bunch myself you know.
Keep 'em coming though. Really enjoying the articles and anectdotes.
As for the '65 GTO emblems...I thought the '65 and '64 quarter panels were the same? No?

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

I have been enlarging them...that's the only way I could read them. I just have to use reading glasses. I'm in the over 50 bunch myself you know.
Keep 'em coming though. Really enjoying the articles and anectdotes.
As for the '65 GTO emblems...I thought the '65 and '64 quarter panels were the same? No?

Greg,
Where did you find that bearded smiley face that's great?

The '64 and '65 quarter panels are the same. The difference is the placement of the GTO emblem. The '64 are high on the quarter while the '65 was low just above the beauty line.

On the enlagement. I've been able to click the picture in the lower attachment thumbnail section. After it enlarges with a black back ground I've been able to double click it again and my computer opens another page with a white back ground and the page gives me a small circled plus sign. When I click the plus sign over the picture I get even larger picture with the white back ground. When it enlarges I get a circled negitive sign that when I click it over the picture and it gets smaller again. To get off that page I have to X-out in the upper right hand corner. I'm not sure it this works for every one.

Being in that age 60's group I many times have to use those darn reading glasses too. Oh, it's H--l getting old.

Eric

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Greg,
Where did you find that bearded smiley face that's great?

The '64 and '65 quarter panels are the same. The difference is the placement of the GTO emblem. The '64 are high on the quarter while the '65 was low just above the beauty line.

On the enlagement. I've been able to click the picture in the lower attachment thumbnail section. After it enlarges with a black back ground I've been able to double click it again and my computer opens another page with a white back ground and the page gives me a small circled plus sign. When I click the plus sign over the picture I get even larger picture with the white back ground. When it enlarges I get a circled negitive sign that when I click it over the picture and it gets smaller again. To get off that page I have to X-out in the upper right hand corner. I'm not sure it this works for every one.

Being in that age 60's group I many times have to use those darn reading glasses too. Oh, it's H--l getting old.

Eric

Yeah but I think it beats the alternative...or at least I don't want to try the alternative yet.
I knew what you meant about the + and - mouse commands. That's what I meant by enlarging it. No way I could have read them without doing that, even with glasses. If I really wanted to make it easier, I could just save the pics of the articles to my computer and enlarge them for easy reading.
As for the bearded smiley...It, along with many other smileys, are right on the reply page. If you don't see them below your posts as you type them, you must be using the 'quick reply' function?

[brut4s]

Great stuff! Keep 'em coming!!

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

My '65 GTO 421 Tri-power Royal Bobcat in summer 1969. I had a opened the hood orniment and cut away the extra flashing and put on a ram air pan.

It wasn't until years later I realized that my GTO emblems on my quater panels are where the '64 GTO's had them.

Funny the color of my '65 GTO was Palmetto Green.

Who say's that the factory never makes mistakes. I have no idea if this is was a early production car. There was never any quarter panel damage noted on the car.

Speaking of my '65 GTO. I used to go over to Royal and Sam Frontier, Ace Wilson's Parts Manager, would send me up stairs to pick out my intake manifolds, cast or aluminum. They would have them and exhaust manifolds hanging by hooks from the rafters. These were "take off"s from warranty replacement engines. The factory would send complete engine but the dealership had to use the owners original heads intake and exhaust manifolds. So the one up stairs could not be sold as new because they had been installed once. So....Sam would give us a great deal on them. I think I paid $10-15 on a cast intake and $25 for an aluminum intake ('69 - '70)
Little known item. Jim Wangers had Royal do testing of the effects of ram air. It did bring down the temperature.Some customers had three tubes from a sheet metal box over the carbs to the firewall above the heater box in 1964.

Royal built and sold fiberglass ram air pans in 1965. Remember, the Factory didn't have a Ram Air car until 1966. It was cheaper to build them in fiberglass than pay for tooling and dies for a stamped steel pan. I paid approx $50 for the pan with foam and another $10 for the hood orniment I cut open. The pan came with the instructions of what braceing to cut in the hood and the little bit of sheet metal behind the hood orniment. Sam told me that they even made a dual quad ram air pan that fit nicely under the '65-'67 GTO hood.

Keith Seymore's dad got one of the early sheet metals pans used to test the ram air. Keith can tell you more.

This should confuse the purests, fiberglass ram air pans in 1965. Before the intro of the 1966 Ram Air GTO. Now the great debate...LOL Just go out and enjoy the hobby and your cars.

Thing is ever as you think it seems/ed....

[brut4s]

Sam told me that they even made a dual quad ram air pan that fit nicely under the '65-'67 GTO hood.



Now will PY reproduce that?

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Keith Seymore's dad got one of the early sheet metals pans used to test the ram air. Keith can tell you more.

Here's what that one looks like -

Made in the Pontiac experimental sheet metal shop; we grabbed it off Dick Jesse's desk.

K

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Ro riding along with Billy Schmitz while Woodward "Street Racing" the Royal '69 Judge before the introduction of the Judge.

Note that Ro can not remember, in Hot Rod Magazine Dec. 2001, what year he rode along with the Royal guys. You know it is this age thing that catchs up with all of us...Or is because we have done so much in our lives that it gets foggy after a while. Ya, that's it...LOL

Note that this was originally the Lime Light Green with white interior Ram Air IV, rear antenna, Press/ Engineering/ Mule/ Prototype (whatever you want to call this GTO) that has had different engines, paint, spoiler and Judge Stripes etc. This GTO hadn't recieved it's hotter engine set ups yet. The Blue GTO bObcat Ram Air V was the quicker of the two in this artcile.

Some one on another thread liked playing semantics with me: Mule/Prototype/press/engineering/test/evaluation car, so I'm covering my bases. After all I don't want to get it wrong if he comes to this thread.... LOL

Opps...I said the Blue GTO Bobcat chase car was a Ram Air V. There was NO Ram Air V in this car. It was just a strong running Ram Air IV. ( Now the another great debate, No really. It was a strong running RA IV always)

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

How about some Geeto Tiger photos? This was a very sucessful program. John Politzer was the the Mystery Tiger all year long. With the exception of the last race when the Tiger was revealed. John became the lucky ticket holder that raced the Mystery Tiger.

John had to hold back on this last race which George Hurst worn the Tiger suit. George launched poorly and missed shifts. But George finally won.

They was a towing accident with one of the Geeto Tigers. John's grand mother had passed away while the team was on the east coast. When they finished the program that night Dave Warren, Sid and John headed out to get John home in time for the Funeral.

All John remembers is that he was in one of the Tigers, they would flat tow, and some how the car came loose. John woke up to Dave and Sid Warren yelling at him to wake up. The cars had to be replaced. If you have picture of the old '66's you will notice the early cars had opposite GeeTo Tiger print and different Philo's. One side would have Philo with a raised hand. The other side would have Philo with his hand over his mouth and a dropped E and reversed. The cars would face you with the different sides. The new cars had the same thing facing you. Both Philo's waving or hand over his mouth with the dropped and reversed E. (The white sided car is the one that changed)

John Politzer is seen racing a blonde. This is professional racer Shirley Shaheen in the close lane. John beat her too.

Just another behind the scenes.