#21  
Old 01-23-2021, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by i82much View Post
the only other thing i would say is this. if you are hard-headed enuff to put that cam in your car, we are probably distant relatives because i would do the same dang thing.

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Old 01-23-2021, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
Don't be disheartened by my harsh realizations and others here. Most of us have been there, once or more times. As mentioned, an 068 factory cam or something similar will have a manageable lopey idle, plenty of low-mid-range power where you can use it with that heavy car and highway gear. Should make 320-350 HP if the engine is healthy and tuned properly. You will be much happier. Have some fun with your car!!
Sounds like a sensible course of action!

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  #23  
Old 01-23-2021, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by steve25 View Post

There’s no weekend fun to driving a car that sounds hot , but yet the neighborhood 19 year old punk blows you into weeds from a stop light in his civic with only a loud muffler and air cleaner as a mod!
To be fair, there are a lot of corners here in the UK, first turn Civic Boy is probably disappearing ahead anyway!

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Old 01-23-2021, 04:28 PM
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Are you sure you have the actual 041 comp grind? Do you have the part number? Compcams sells 2 different cams as 041 replacements. One is a copy of the actual old 041, the other more common grind from comp uses their more modern magnum profiles. The later is more streetable in 3.75 stroke engine.

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Old 01-23-2021, 05:45 PM
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Okay I think I am gonna get flamed. Most will say not an apples to apples.
I don't have a 041 but close enough. It is an H-O Racing HC-02/744HL with 231 /243 @.050 on a 113* LSA, .513 lift with 1.65 rockers. No Rhoads lifters. It's in a 400 with aluminum heads at 10.1:1 . Street n strip TH350 with 2800 stall torque converter, 3.07 gears. It does have a lumpy idle, but I've heard lumpier in other 'street' cars. In my 68 Firebird. Riding on the dreaded (hard) BFG T/A's. Idles at 750 rpm in drive with 11" vacuum. It is finicky to start, and won't idle until until it gets some heat into it. The power brakes require more effort when idling out of the driving otherwise they are just fine. From a standing start it will roast the tires through first and well into second because of the non sticky tires. From a rolling 20 mph start the car goes, but the tires break loose when the cam hits it's power band in the mid 3k and up rpms. While doing errands around town, at a stop light the cooolant temp will rise over 200* F, but comes down once I'm rolling again. I'm sure the higher stall torque converter makes it a bit more driveable. I enjoy driving it, others may not. Others may not even enjoy a ride along.
If you have any trepidations, it would be better to err on the cautious side. If the 041 cam & kit are new, I think it would be easier to sell than used, even if for a short amount of time.
The previous engine in that car was another 400, about 8.5 :1 cr with a cam similar to an 068, and stock converter. It would 'squawk' the tires; nowhere near a 'roasting'. It was also quite a bit fun driving it, but I like the new one a tad bit better.

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  #26  
Old 01-23-2021, 05:54 PM
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You obviously are more interested in getting looks to actual performance based on your own admission. Given that, I would recommend a milder cam and installing triangle wheels. You will get the same “omg, what a tool” looks at the cruise ins and much better performance.
Aka. Not a good choice no matter what a one off might say....

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Old 01-23-2021, 06:02 PM
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Also no one has said anything about the compression ratio, as that is not the subject of this thread. I will digress as that is known to happen on this site. From some of the info I have gleaned from this site, if your 389 is actually 10.5:1 compression ratio, a 068 may be too small for that CR and you would run into detonation difficulties, unless your UK gas has a higher octane rating. Pontiac rated their ratios about 0.5 points higher, so you may actually have 10:1. Only real way to know is to measure every thing: combustion chamber size, piston valve relief/dish, distance piston is down the hole, etc.

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Old 01-23-2021, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tooski View Post
Okay I think I am gonna get flamed. Most will say not an apples to apples.
I don't have a 041 but close enough. It is an H-O Racing HC-02/744HL with 231 /243 @.050 on a 113* LSA, .513 lift with 1.65 rockers. No Rhoads lifters. It's in a 400 with aluminum heads at 10.1:1 . Street n strip TH350 with 2800 stall torque converter, 3.07 gears. It does have a lumpy idle, but I've heard lumpier in other 'street' cars. In my 68 Firebird. Riding on the dreaded (hard) BFG T/A's. Idles at 750 rpm in drive with 11" vacuum. It is finicky to start, and won't idle until until it gets some heat into it. The power brakes require more effort when idling out of the driving otherwise they are just fine. From a standing start it will roast the tires through first and well into second because of the non sticky tires. From a rolling 20 mph start the car goes, but the tires break loose when the cam hits it's power band in the mid 3k and up rpms. While doing errands around town, at a stop light the cooolant temp will rise over 200* F, but comes down once I'm rolling again. I'm sure the higher stall torque converter makes it a bit more driveable. I enjoy driving it, others may not. Others may not even enjoy a ride along.
If you have any trepidations, it would be better to err on the cautious side. If the 041 cam & kit are new, I think it would be easier to sell than used, even if for a short amount of time.
The previous engine in that car was another 400, about 8.5 :1 cr with a cam similar to an 068, and stock converter. It would 'squawk' the tires; nowhere near a 'roasting'. It was also quite a bit fun driving it, but I like the new one a tad bit better.
i think the converter makes a huge difference. a stock converter is going to put a huge load on the OP’s engine compared to your converter. the idle RPM drop from park to gear is going to be huge no matter how much he tunes it.

  #29  
Old 01-23-2021, 07:25 PM
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The compression plays a huge part here!!

The HO racing high lift 744 cam still has 76 degrees of overlap, the 041 has another 11 degrees on top of that, while the very street friendly 068 cam has only 63 degrees of overlap.

The 068 cam in a 400 with # 48 heads ,with tuning while pumping thru RA exh manifolds and dynoed while just driving the water pump has made 370 hp so it’s no wimpy cam.

In terms of a fresh top to bottom 389 rebuild and with what those heads flow you would be doing very well to make even 325 hp with a 068 cam.

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Last edited by steve25; 01-23-2021 at 07:30 PM.
  #30  
Old 01-23-2021, 07:30 PM
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I experienced a 041 389 combo once in a 1966 GTO 4 speed with 4:11 gears. Was a blast to drive, .... stock converter automatic 2 something gears ?
Probably not so good,
Your your going to NEED to learn carb calibration to even get close to acceptable driving manners
Iam not talking just idle screws and speed

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  #31  
Old 01-23-2021, 07:47 PM
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60% or more of that great 389 blast was due to the 4.11 gears I assure you!

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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
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Old 01-23-2021, 08:47 PM
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You know back in the 80s when I mainly did autocrossing there was another guy with a 78 Firebird with a low compression 400 that had an 041 in it that ran OK. Was not supposed to do a cam change in "stock" class but did and got away with it.

But I agree with an 068-one of my local friends that builds and turns a lot of different Pontiac uses that as his go to cam for 389s, 400s and even 455s. His quote "has a little lope and roasts the tires" !

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Old 01-23-2021, 09:13 PM
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That's why I included the gear ratio, I assure you 25
And that's why I insinuated that with a 2 something gear and stock converter it wont work great

Contrast by context

.

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  #34  
Old 01-23-2021, 09:34 PM
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Plus the pontiac diehards here hate to see anyone put a combo together that will be a dog out of the hole. A stock 389 with a 041 cam in a big,heavy car with tall gears and a stock converter will probably be a embarrassment to the pontiac pride. Ive seen some pontiacs on youtube trying to be a hotrod and all i do is feel sorry for them.

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Old 01-23-2021, 09:47 PM
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Yup, the you I was referring to was the OP of this string.

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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
  #36  
Old 01-23-2021, 11:44 PM
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Then there is the economical approach of a Summit 2801.

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  #37  
Old 01-24-2021, 01:28 AM
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Put the 041 in with a set of Rhodes lifters. I doubt you'll have to put the car in neutral at a stop either. It will be a little fussy and flat at low speeds but will sound glorious.

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Old 01-24-2021, 07:33 AM
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Well, there's been plenty to read here - probably going to put the 041 on the shelf for the time being, till I can get an overdrive manual and lower the rear gears - Rhoads lifters seem like a good idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by tooski View Post
Then there is the economical approach of a Summit 2801.
Yeah I have been looking at the k2800/k2801 - They seem like great value

The other option would be to just get an EngineTech reman of a 068 and use the Comp lifters I already have (given I'd need to use Rhoads with the 041 anyway)

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Old 01-24-2021, 08:43 AM
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Here is yet more Caming suggestions handed down through the ages!
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__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
  #40  
Old 01-24-2021, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve25 View Post
Here is yet more Caming suggestions handed down through the ages!
I love old charts like these, thanks for sharing!

It does raise an interesting point, I wonder how much advancing the 041 4-6deg plus Rhoads lifters would tame the cam

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