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Old 01-15-2014, 04:04 AM
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Default Zinc Plating Fun

In my quest to salvage as many original parts as possible, in hopes of someday finishing a concours type restoration, I've starting doing some zinc re-plating of parts.

Below are some before after pics ...actually they are pics of identical parts from the same location, same car.

I fudged up a plating solution based on various recipes I've seen listed. Bought a variable voltage/current DC power supply. Picked up most of the stuff at the grocery store, Home Depot and McMaster-Carr.

Nuts, Washers, sleeve clamps: all were solvent cleaned and then power wire brushed. Then the plated parts were dipped in Muriatic acid for a ten seconds or so, rinsed in water, then denatured alcohol, then plated, rinsed in alcohol, brushed (three times) for the results seen.

The brass was dipped in Muriatic acid for about 1 minutes, rinsed in alcohol, plated and brushed three times.

The hose clamp was dipped in Muriatic acid for five to ten minutes (I didn't clean it prior at all, it looked just like the unplated one). rinsed in alcohol, then plated and brushed three times.

The whole thing was quite easy. Total cost around $120-130 ...INCLUDING the nice DC power supply. Probably enough supplies to zinc thousands of small parts.

I've got some sodium di-chromate on the way so I can do the proper yellow chromate conversion coating (the gold iridescent coating) when necessary.

I'm working on finding the proper formula to treat the yellow chromate to clear (could be as simple as vinegar as suggested by a forum member in another post).

It's hard to find info on electro plating. Much of it is geared toward commercial plating, and many sources don't want to give up any formulas, or are afraid of treading on proprietary information. Much of what is out there is quite old, or from hobbyist like ourself just using trial and error. Plus everyone is scared of giving advice on the use of any kind of chemical that might be harmful in any way. The pros don't want to give out any real useful info to amateurs cause.... you'll just put your eye out ...... they'll just repeat a lot of safety concerns and tell you to have a professional do the work.

In many cases the "good" chemicals are still legal to use by the hobbyist because they don't use them in the volume, or for profit, as big companies do....which is the case with a lot of materials these days.

Anyway ...if anyone is curious I will certainly divulge everything I know about the subject from my experiments.
JohnnyB

PS. The brass fitting was only done so I KNOW that parts are actually getting plated ... cause it works so good it's hard to believe. Of course if you dip a zinc plated part into the Muratic acid you will know it's plated, creates a pretty energetic reaction.
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:46 AM
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Been doing this for 4 yrs now, anything i can help you with fill free to ask. Rich

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Old 01-15-2014, 09:24 AM
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I would be interested to know what all it takes to do this. Ive been looking into a way to save all the small part off the car and this sounds like a very good idea. What all did you have to get to get started?

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Old 01-15-2014, 01:56 PM
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Various plastic containers for storing and mixing etc. I'm using ...errr...several empty metamucil containers I save. Something similar to a five gallon plastic pail ( I used about a 3 gal, square plastic detergent pail).

A variable voltage/current power supply.
I bought this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F0SGVCS

It's powerful enough to do parts of probably 8 square inches total. Or a several parts that add up to that much. A more powerful unit will do more or larger parts.

Zinc Sulfate - get it on ebay, couple of pounds for $20 including shipping
Distilled water - couple of gallons, grocery store (tap water might be fine in some areas)
Muriatic acid - Home Depot
Denatured Alcohol - Home Depot
Glucose - Karo Syrup, grocery store ...in the baking aisle.
Epsom salt - Drug store, $3
Boric Acid - HotShot ant/roach killer - Home Depot
Zinc Anodes - McMaster-Carr, about $6 each (need at least two, they come with a wire attached, my local Home Depot did not have any zinc anodes)


This is the stuff I used. Recipes vary widely, and from what I can tell so far ratios are not hugely important either.


Several feet of solid copper wire .... I just stripped some cable that was lying around.

Here is a webpage I found helpful.
http://home.comcast.net/~rt66tbird/w...ncplating.html

It includes about the most simple recipe I have seen, and from the pictures it seems to work.


Rich ...throw in any tips you have. Considering how handy it is to be able to do this, it should be a sticky topic.

Between this process, yellow chromating, zinc phosphate and manganese phosphate you can cover about 80% of the metal treatments on car. (for anyone that hasn't done it the zinc and manganese phosphating is even easier).
JohnnyB

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Old 01-15-2014, 05:42 PM
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My bucket of greasy, factory bolts/screws is nearly full and I want to get them plated as you're doing... last time I took the bucket to a plater who hot tanked the parts and plated them...naturally they are out of business.

This may be the way to go...

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Old 01-15-2014, 07:01 PM
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Funny but I was thinking about this the other day. I also like his link for oil and phosphate bolts (hover over restoration tips).

I looked on ebay for Zinc sulfate but most are listing like 36% pure. Is that ok for this or is there a specific type needed?

Nice looking parts by the way!!

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Old 01-15-2014, 07:55 PM
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This is the stuff I ordered off ebay, and the same company I think:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000g-Zinc-S...item2ecd5c80b5

Professional platers can probably do "barrel" plating or some method where they can just toss a bunch of stuff in a bin and do them all at once. This home method is of course slower, but the quality is probably just as good and it's addictive fun.

I have not tried his phosphating method yet, but I have used this guy's stuff: http://www.palmettoenterprises.net/P...-Welcome-.html
And it works great, absolutely professsional looking results. Wish I knew his formula, quite likely those bottles are just full of Zinc or Manganese powder desolved in phosphoric acid, or perhaps Zinc or Manganese sulfate disolved in Phosphoric acid (I'm no chemist so I wouldn't know

Rich,
Do you know of any good recipes for a "bright dip" to use after pulling a part from the plating bath? For a lot of parts I don't want a brushed, or steel wool type shine, I just want a uniform shiny/satin finish. I know zinc platers don't polish the finished product, too much labor, they just use a "bright dip" that removes the dull surface deposits created during plating, usually a mild acid of some kind I think.

Here are todays parts. Can't wait to try yellow and clear Chromating, and "brush plating" some problematic areas like the inside of ash trays etc.
JohnnyB
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:58 PM
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thats funny, am just about to begin this. have most everything except the zinc sulfate so far. was following the same page too:

Here is a webpage I found helpful.
http://home.comcast.net/~rt66tbird/w...ncplating.html

i believe i have cleaned enough parts to last the winter and am excited about a little science. actually my son is excited. ok i'm excited too. the molasses / vinegar science went very well and have high hopes for this. maybe the chromate part too so the carburetors will look a little prettier. will follow this one.


Jim


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Old 01-15-2014, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 672brlbaby View Post
Here is a webpage I found helpful.
http://home.comcast.net/~rt66tbird/w...ncplating.html

Jim
Not me... here is what I got: Sorry, the page you were looking for could not be found.

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Old 01-16-2014, 12:47 AM
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I think it is the same page as above
http://home.comcast.net/~rt66tbird/w...ncplating.html

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Old 01-16-2014, 01:08 AM
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as long as we are posting about this, i like a few things that this guy did.
http://mgonitzke.net16.net/zinc_plating.html

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Old 01-16-2014, 02:50 AM
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Good stuff here, thanks guys.

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Old 01-16-2014, 02:40 PM
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Since I had "Yellow Fever" at one time I know how creative the Cub Cadet guys can be.

I comment that one reason you don't see the "chlorides" used often in plating (not even table salt) is that during the plating process chlorine gas will be created along with the hydrogen bubbles. This is just something I read, nothing I know from experience or knowledge of chemistry. Epsom salt would be a suitable replacement for table salt for instance (sodium, instead of sodium chloride).

Anyway, you can see that formulas for the electrolyte bath vary wildly. I prefer the formulas that contain zinc sulfate (charges the solution with zinc ions so plating is MUCH faster), epsom salt to avoid chlorides. Vinegar and Boric acid? I don't know which is better ... Vinegar is easier to add as boric acid is a powder and doesn't like to dissolve. So basically .... lots of options, all of them seem to work.

Plate times for the cub cadet guy seemed very long. I'll typically plate for about 7 minutes, remove, brush, repeat ...three times. Although I'm assuming the zinc sulfate and multiple anodes I used would decrease plating time.

LOTS of ways to skin this cat.

The muriatic acid is pretty impressive, it will remove all the rust from a part in perhaps 30 minutes. It will remove all the corrosion deposits etc ...but, it's not going to replace any metal, so it there are pits, there will be pits. For a clean, bead blasted part ...just dip it in the acid for a few seconds, rinse in water or denatured alcohol and put it in the plating solution.

This is all really much easier than most people imagine. Many people replace the original hardware just because it has lost it's Zinc plating, not because the fastener doesn't work anymore. And although many places claim their hardware has the right markings, I've never seen repro hardware that actually has the exact same markings original hardware ...close sometimes, but not the same.

I'll try to get some pics of my simple setup today.

If anyone else has any zinc, or home plating pages they have found, please post them. Each one adds a bit of info and new ways to do things.

JohnnyB

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Old 01-16-2014, 05:48 PM
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Some pics of my setup.

Arm and Hammer Detergent pail. - Square is easier to work with than round, it's not too deep, but deep enough. I don't want to have to mix of 3 gallons of solution just so it's at a reasonable height to work with, since this container is not as deep as a five gallon pail, I can mix up only 1 gallon of solution at a time, and still have it at a workable depth.

Heat lamp - I use this to heat up and maintain the temp of the solution at about 70 degrees. (my shop is normally only heated to about 50 degrees unless I am working in it). I painted a side of the pail black so it soaks up the heat much better.

Power supply - $59. Adjustable voltage and current. You'll note that the red light next to the current knob is lit, that means I am using the current control to adjust current until I get the voltage I want. Too complicated to get into here, but suffice it to say, if you keep voltage from 2-4 volts using the amperage control you should be fine, less volts for smaller parts, more for larger parts. Plating is strange in that you in general want to control current, but it also has to be at a certain voltage level to generate the chemical reactions you want. A power supply like this is great in that you can control either one. I found that if you go by the sometimes quoted 140ma per square inch, the voltage will be too low ....at least in my solution. Current will vary depending on the PH and conductivity of each recipe. And again ...there seems a WIDE variety of settings that will work.

In the picture the power suppy is reading 2.4 volts, and .68 amps (or 680ma)

Also seen are the two zinc anodes hanging one on either side.

JohnnyB
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Old 01-16-2014, 06:48 PM
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I bought everything from Caswell Plating, power supply was 300.00$ thou. I hand polish every part witch is a bare and dangerous. I also am using 5 gallon con. bought .030 zinc sheets and cut them to fit. You really need a good glassbeading kit also.I use alot of distilled water(not expensive butt) it ads up in a hurry. You also need copper wire. Now i forgot you need a good circulation pump to keep everything agitated. You can eaily run up to 800.00& setting everything up.Yep then there,s the heaters for your tank to hold 75 to 80 degree,s, they don,t last long either.

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Old 01-17-2014, 05:17 AM
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You really don't need all that stuff. My results, and the results of many others testify to the fact that it's not that hard, not that expensive, and not that dangerous. Sure if you buy everything from people that make a profit on selling "kits" it's expensive. But thousands of people are doing it very affordable and with good results.

$10 in copper wire would last you a life time. You can find a power supply to replace the Caswell unit for 1/4 the price (and I've posted a link to where you can get it). Not sure why hand polishing would be dangerous, Zinc in plated form is not toxic. Yes bead blasting comes in handy, but can be replaced by hand cleaning, wire brushes and Muriatic acid.

Agitation is NOT necessary, again, I can show the result that show it is not necessary. Caswell, Eastwood etc make a ton duping people into buying stuff that can be had for a fraction of the price.

A heater....like my example can be made from a heat lamp bulb. Lasts a long time.

Distilled water might, or might not be required, depends on your location. I've used about 1.25 gallons of distilled water at this point, total cost about $2.60 and I've plated a couple dozen parts. So I don't expect my distilled water usage to make me go broke. I will be using the same 1.25 gallons of distilled water to plate at least 100 parts.

If you spent $800, I'd suggest you follow this thread and get the same result for about $130, including enough supplies to do about 1000 small parts. It's not like I'm lying, or making this up, I am doing it, and posting pictures of the results .. not sure why anyone in the world would spend $800 on this. I have posted the products I used, their cost when enough to be a consideration, and the results. It's not rocket science and it's not expensive. You have to remember, companies like Caswell make a fortune on making people believe this is some mystical science that requires all kinds of special products and kits ....that's just not the truth. It's a simple, straight forward process that has been done by hobbyist for decades with products that are mostly commonly available.

JohnnyB


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Old 01-17-2014, 05:42 AM
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Latest pics.

A re-zinc'ed Dual Gate Shifter cable connector. And a pic of four Maganese Phospated bolts with re-zinc'ed factory nut on one of them. The picture of bolts shows the variation you might get with Manganese Phosphating ...some turn out great, some not so much. The picture show this variation, with some bolts that I feel are beyond help, and one (with nut) that show what can be done with Manganse Phosphate solution (about $25) and zinc electro-plating, about $130 dollars, and can be repeated hundreds of times without spending any more money.
JohnnyB

PS. You can find Zinc Anodes 1/2" thick that will last you ....uhhhh..... how about ....FOREVER right here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#zinc-anodes/=qacyqr for $6 each.
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:36 AM
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Thanks for all the info. Going to start piecing togeather the stuff needed. Allready been doing the zinc phosphate plating for some years now and it is very rewarding.

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Old 01-17-2014, 07:53 AM
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Johnny,

Here is a link to an interesting site that may be helpful.

http://www.nulltime.com/zincplating/...rel/index.html

I do have intentions of putting together a small Barrel Plating unit if I can ever get some of my other projects finished.


Dave

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Old 01-17-2014, 10:46 AM
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this looks like a nice power supply. My hopes would be that i can do some larger parts also like brake brackets and such. Any thoughts on this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_3541wt_1362

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