[tempest1964]

I am looking into setting up my motor for my early '64 like the 2 groove pulley set-up in the illustration below. It might be impossible to do since it seems that some of these parts for this early '64 set-up are one year only. Anyway, never hurts to ask. The Restoration Guide on page 243 is where I got this illustration.
I believe the numbers that go with the illustrated drawing for the brackets are from the MPC. I do not have the MPC. The numbers (not shown in the attached illustration) are as follows:

#6.....Strap,alternator belt,front..........Group no. 2.317
#8.....Strap,alternator belt,rear...........Group no. 2.317
#13....Bracket,steering pump mount....Group no. 6.606
#22....Brace,alternator support...........Group no. 2.277
#24....Support,power steering pump....Group no. 6.606

Another thing for me to consider is, will this even work. I am planning on using my 6X-4 heads on my motor. Maybe the brackets won't even line up and bolt on? So, if anyone knows the part numbers for these brackets and supports, please let me know. Then I will begin my hunt for parts. Hopefully, not a fools errand.
Thanks in advance,
Tony


[/QUOTE]

[Dick Boneske]

The heads are not a problem with pulley alignment. It's the water pump, power steering pump, and the pulley selection that varies by some years. I do know '64 and '65 are different, with power steering pulley offset, water pump offset.

[John V.]

Tony, when I bought my first '64 convert in '73, it had the twin belt set-up. I thought it was the coolest thing and I didn't know that it was a half year deal til I started researching the '64. Regrettably, that GTO got away and the VIN lost to history. But I assume it was an early build because of the PS belt arrangement.

My current and only other '64 convert with PS was built at Fremont in Nov. '63 so it has the twin belt arrangement which I still think is cool to see.

I think the alt straps are reproduced. The belts are reproduced for sure, I've got them on mine.

The PS mounting did NOT change when they changed the belt arrangement, Same all year and same on the '64 big Pontiac. Parts weren't all that hard to find 30 years ago, not sure about today. Some pieces may even be reproduced (alt support brace maybe?).

I defer to Dick about the heads, I have no idea if the later heads have the needed bolt holes to bolt the '64 stuff up.

Are you using an 8 bolt pump?

The '64 8" dia. wp 2 groove pulley was also same all year long and used big car too. You can find the p/n in the MPC. IIRC, it was used late '63 too when they went to the 8 bolt pump for the first time.

The 2 groove alt pulley was still available last I looked a few years ago, so should be easy. You can put the 2 groove pulley on any '64 10DN regardless of amp output and probably some later model ones too. The rare hard to find early year only 1100676 37A alt only differed by the fact that Delco Remy supplied it to Pontiac with the 2 groove pulley installed. But swap a 2 groove pulley onto the 1100683 37A and you have the same alt.

The '64 balancer would match to all other '64 components. The AC version had a different crank pulley but all non-AC V8 balancers were the same for Tempests and big Pontiacs in '64. I think you can still find them.

When you start mixing and matching pulleys and components from different years, all bets are off. As Dick mentioned, pulleys can look same but slight offset changes will mess up alignment.

Anything can be made to work but years ago questions like this were common and guys would spend mucho time trying to work out belt misalignment with mismatched parts. Always easier when you start with matched components.

If you are using all '64 stuff except for the heads, the illustration in the MPC and advice from guys here can probably help you get it set up and working.

Recently I saw a '64 GTO set-up with PS and a SINGLE v-belt running the WP, PS, and alt. It was plain weird looking to me. The car was originally manual steering and I don't recall if I looked at the PS bracketry to see if it was '64 stuff or later model. It had a single groove PS pump pulley, IIRC, it looked like it was the larger dia. type pulley that was used in '64 for PS with AC. That arrangement did NOT use the twin belt set-up. But still should not have had a single belt spinning both the PS and Alt.

Just saying, guys can make anything work. But usually you'll stay saner if you stay away from a custom one-off set-up.

[tempest1964]

Dick and John,
Thanks for the responses. After re-reading the info in the illustration in the restoration guide, I realized that the cast bracket is part number 545313. I found this on e-bay and should receive it today. John, you are right. Our sponsor reproduces the (3) brackets no's 6,8 and 22 from the attached illustration. That leaves the pulleys, water pump and p/s pump. I have purchased an early 8-bolt pump. And I'm hoping all p/s pumps were the same for the '64 model year since I currently have p/s on my factory 6 banger setup. Knowing that the heads won't be a problem is huge. If worse comes to worse, Ramairrestorations sells a matched set of early '64 pulleys. Although I'm sure the p/s pulley wouldn't be the same as factory. And yes John, I think it's a pretty cool looking setup too. Thanks again for the help/advice.

[John V.]

Tony, just realized you don’t have the MPC. The p/ns may be in the Resto Guide too. But if you need any other p/ns let me know. Do you have item 24?

It is 9775521, ‘64 only part. I see that it is also reproduced. I was kinda amazed to learn that.

The pumps were same for the ‘64 Tempest V8 and the big cars. Not sure how the ‘65 V8 pump differed but it carries a different p/n.

But the 6 cyl PS pump lists a different pump in the MPC.

I thought maybe they just differed in the pump reservoir, like perhaps the 6 cyl used a shorter fill neck on the reservoir.

But I checked the p/ns and both the Reservoir and the Pump Body show different p/ns.

Without seeing them side by side I have no idea how they differ.

You can check yours to see if it will mount to the bracketry. Could be different orientation of hose connections. It it doesn’t fit you might start looking for a ‘64 V8 pump.

Sounds like you have a good start on it.

[tempest1964]

Yes, items 13 and 24 should arrive today. Looks like the pulleys I need are:
Water Pump......538547
Alternator.........1962998
Balancer...........9775627
P/S Pump.........9774775
Maybe if you find the time, you could send me the numbers in the MPC for the correct water pump and p/s pump-just in case mine don’t fit correctly?
Thanks

[John V.]

The water pump and PS pump p/ns in the MPC won’t help you. They are Assembly p/ns and won’t be found on the part itself.

You already have an 8 bolt pump and it will fit the ‘64 Timing Chain Cover regardless of which pump you have.

The original ‘64 pump shows p/n 9772716 on the pump body, it was the p/n of the body casting itself, not the complete pump assembly.

Only way to ID it. It was used from late ‘63 thru ‘65.

Problem is, it was also used on the late ‘63 “half a V8” 4 cyl engine. In this version, the cast iron impeller has the same vanes as the V8 version, but they are shorter in height (how high they stand off the face of the impeller).

I used to know the difference but have forgotten. If you are buying a used one you want to make sure to have the taller vanes. I hesitate to say this cause I’m not really sure but I think the 4 cyl vanes were 1/2” high, the V8 vanes might have been 5/8” high.

Here is one on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1963-1965-P...4383.l4275.c10

You would need to have the Seller measure the ht. of the vanes and then confirm it is correct for a V8.

But again don’t think you need it unless you were fanatical about a factory correct appearance (I am but it’s a flaw in my character ��).

Just for yucks, the ‘64 V8 PS Pump p/n is 5692613.

Unless you find one NOS in the original parts box, I don’t think this p/n will help you.

I rebuilt and restored mine more than 25 years ago. It finally got installed a couple years ago. But for some reason I didn’t take any useful pix of it to see if there is a p/n on the body casting.

Maybe somebody else knows or has a good pic to help identify it when you go looking for one.

[tempest1964]

John, as usual, you are a wealth of information. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge.

[bbnotop]

Tempest1964, I recently took off my '64 dual belt set and likely have all the parts that you need. I don't get on this site much these days, but let me know what you still need, parts or numbers and I should be able to help. Pontiac and their pulley systems can be maddening. I put a '73 400 in my 64 and decided that I would just put together the '73 set up. Holy crap, there is so many one year only in this era as well. On my 3rd power steering pump after returning the first two. I "think" I got it right now.

[Rlfehl]

I have the dual pulleys on my 64....I have one one the alt, ps and wp and the other on the wp and Vintage air. I had to fix up the A/C bracket a little but it works.

[tempest1964]

bbnotop,
I am in need of the 3 straps, numbers 6,8 and 22 in the drawing in post #1. As well as the 4 pulleys. I am sending a PM for my contact info.
Thanks
Tony

[Jack P.]

I have this in my stash, not sure where it came from. 2.75 dia and .75 mount hole, no keyway. If you can use it PM me.
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1594748848
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1594748848

[HALFWAY]

I have the crankshaft pulley, harmonic balancer, spacer plate, 6 bolts to mount these items. I also have the water pump pulley. 2nd type setup in your diagram.

These came off a 64 326 dual pulley motor.

I have no idea what there worth so if you need them, make me an offer + shipping.

[tempest1964]

Halfway, thanks for the offer. I am actually looking for the first type setup from the diagram.

[HALFWAY]

I thought John V stated in post#3 that the water pump pulley and crankshaft pulley/ balancer were the same for both setups or did I miss read it?

[tempest1964]

My apologies. I looked at the photos and thought they were a single groove. I will PM you

[HALFWAY]

Originally Posted by tempest1964

My apologies. I looked at the photos and thought they were a single groove. I will PM you

PM sent back to you!