[1965 Pontiac Parisienne]

Hi friends,
had anybody tried out an Edelbrock 600 1406 on an 389 1965 engine?
What is the better choice? An stock 389 carter AFB 4bbl or an 1406 EDE ?
Any experiences??
Let`s talk about!

[Willshire]

I had a 1406 on my 64. it was quite responsive but needed jetting for wot. I replaced the carter that was on it so i have no basis of comparison. By all accounts the carter was a good carb and was the blueprint for the edelbrock 4bbl

[61-63]

The carter is the better carburetor. The edelbrock can be a good carb too but sometimes
they just will not work properly and while I have never cut one open to look I think this is due to internal casting flaws that occur sometimes. As you say the carter was the basis for the edelbrock and many parts interchange.

I work on AFBs and while I no longer take in work when I still was it got to the point where I would not take on edelbrocks people were having problems with. You can however walk down through the pits at Norwalk every year and see lots of Pontiacs with dual quad edelbrock setups on them so when they work they can work very well.

[mike nixon]

The Carter's a much better carb than the Eldebrock unit. The Elde's are calibrated for a Chevy torque band and just don't function properly for a Pontiac / Buick / Olds/ Caddy Large cube engine.

Mike

[Willshire]

Easiest carb to calibrate though. Jets and metering rods in under five minutes!

[mike nixon]

The Carter is no diff to calibrate than the Eldebrock is. As mentioned above the Eldebrock was copycatted from the AFB and Cheapened up by Eldebrock before being released to the public. The dollar based modifications caused issues.

[carbking]

Suggestions:

If you want "pretty" go with the e-clone
If you want performance go with the original Carter
If you want both pretty and performance restore the original Carter

And with no offense meant; stating that the original Carter AFB is the blueprint for the e-clone is analogous to stating that a Roll-Royce Silver Shadow is the blueprint for the Ford Model T!

Jon.

[1965 Pontiac Parisienne]

Ha ha ..yes Jon, thats really true!!!
I would saty at the carter carb .my 65 runs great and economic ...!!

Originally Posted by carbking

Suggestions:

If you want "pretty" go with the e-clone
If you want performance go with the original Carter
If you want both pretty and performance restore the original Carter

And with no offense meant; stating that the original Carter AFB is the blueprint for the e-clone is analogous to stating that a Roll-Royce Silver Shadow is the blueprint for the Ford Model T!

Jon.

[Willshire]

Blueprint clearly the wrong term Jon lol. I guess "based on" is likely closer terminology lol. Thank you for correcting me sir. It his forum is a great place to learn Pontiac!
Cheers

[Willshire]

i had to google rolls royce silver shadow though. hahaha

[ycis]

any issues with putting a carter 4bb and manifold on an engine that originally came with a 2bb setup from the factory?

im assuming everything else is identical?

[Poncho60]

On my 60 Ventura it's not a problem....the cam is the same for 2 vs 4 barrel. Not sure about that on your 64 if that's the year of your car.

[Overkillphil]

Originally Posted by carbking

Suggestions:

If you want "pretty" go with the e-clone
If you want performance go with the original Carter
If you want both pretty and performance restore the original Carter

And with no offense meant; stating that the original Carter AFB is the blueprint for the e-clone is analogous to stating that a Roll-Royce Silver Shadow is the blueprint for the Ford Model T!

Jon.

X2 on the Carter being THE choice over the E-version!
I've seen Cameron Diaz and she is a gorgeous woman: I "hear" Rosie O'Donnell is a woman: Shall I assume all women are beautiful?

[61-63]

Originally Posted by ycis

any issues with putting a carter 4bb and manifold on an engine that originally came with a 2bb setup from the factory?

im assuming everything else is identical?

If your car came with a 2bbl and the exhaust has not been changed then you have single exhaust. When you put the 4bbl on you will be putting more air/fuel mixture into the engine
and to fully realize the increased performance from this you should upgrade to dual exhaust
so you can get the increased spent gasses out. Leaving it as single exhaust you will still see increased performance but not as much as with dual exhaust.

If you really want it to get up and go change it to a tripower with dual exhaust and stick a Summit 2801 cam in it.

[Willshire]

2bbl was also a lower compression ratio correct?

[61-63]

Depends upon the year of the car and size of the 2bbl in some years they had higher hp 2bbl engines with cr advertised at 10-10.5.

[61 389-348]

I had I believe a 3326 when I did the restoration 14 years ago. Like a fool I tossed the old OEM Carter carb and replaced with a Carter 9635. Ran great until I had some massive fuel pump problems a couple of years ago (excruciatingly detailed in a thread here). Ended up replacing the Carter 9635 with a Edelbrock 1406 just as way of eliminating any potential source of my problems. Ran fine until it got some crap in it. Jeg's offered to exchange it so I took them up on it, but the paid the few buck extra to get a 1806. Ran too rich at WOT so I had to do a metering rod change. Been fine ever since and the car has run great. Great on the road gas mileage too.

[mkeafer]

Hi guys:
Thought I might chime in on this.
I have a 64 Cat that came with a 65 389 engine when I bought it. It also had and has an Edelbrock intake and an Edelbrock Competition Series AFB on it. I have to say it has never missed a beat since I have owned it. Maybe 7 years or so. It has a manual choke and it starts every time with maybe one or two pumps on the accelerator pedal.
I don't think they make this carburetor anymore but it sure has worked fine for me. My car has a small cam and an aftermarket ram air system that works through the lower headlights with 4" flex hose. I don't know if the carb works well because of the extra air or not. All I know is that it works fine.
Mike.

[Tom Vaught]

Believe the Competition Series AFBs were made by Carter years earlier vs Edelbrock.

Now IF Edelbrock is copying the Competition Series tags and putting them on the E-Clones then I am not sure about that deal.

The Carter Competition Series carbs were fine carbs (just not as finely tuned as the typical Pontiac factory AFB in most cases).

Tom Vaught

[carbking]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Believe the Competition Series AFBs were made by Carter years earlier vs Edelbrock.

Now IF Edelbrock is copying the Competition Series tags and putting them on the E-Clones then I am not sure about that deal.

The Carter Competition Series carbs were fine carbs (just not as finely tuned as the typical Pontiac factory AFB in most cases).

Tom Vaught

X2.

The original Carter Competition Series came out in 1969. There were 5 different AFB's:

4758s
4759S
4760s
4761s
4762s



Additionally, there were 4 different thermoquads

4846s
4846sa
4847s
4847sa

Well, I scanned the TQ stickers, but the reflective silver turned black on the scan. Maybe in daylight with camera.

ALL of the Competition Series were sold aftermarket for very high performance street or race use. The A/F ratios were significantly lower (richer) than carbs which were calibrated for O.E. use. None of the Comp series had H.I.C. or fast idle cams. The 4847s/sa had no idle booster, so the idle circuit didn't work exceptionally well.

After Federal Mogul cloned the AFB, F/M started putting Competition Series stickers on some of the 9000 series clones, but they are quite different from the original competition series.

I do not know if there is an e-clone competition series or not.

Jon.