[MartyVi]

So I understand that the flow of oil from pump is to the driver side first and then it crosses over to the passenger side under the front cam bearing. Why is my passenger side Shaver roller lifters so much noisier on the pass side even though I clearanced the area under the front cam bearing. I have 50 psi hot idle pressure with 20w-50 oil. Cylinders 6 and 8 ring the noisiest.
The driver side is perfect. I’ve adjusted the lifters to 1 turn from zero lash and even tried 1.5 turns on the pass side only and still no difference. I checked all the lifters and they have a total of 2.25 turns from zero before botto out so 1.5 is not a problem. Any ideas?

[Joe's Garage]

We've had a couple customers who didn't have the plug in there and the back two cylinders were the clickers.

Good luck!

[tom s]

You know those lifters work better with lighter oil?Tom

[Steve C.]

Of interest.....

https://butlerperformance.com/files/...alley-plug.jpg

https://butlerperformance.com/files/...doc/oiling.jpg


.

[PontiacJim1959]

Originally Posted by tom s

You know those lifters work better with lighter oil?Tom

X2 on the too heavy an oil. 15W-40, but 10W-30 should also work. It also will depend on your bearing clearances.

[Bill Hanlon]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Of interest.....

https://butlerperformance.com/files/...doc/oiling.jpg

.

oiling.jpg diagram shown on Butler's site above is from a "stud oiling" early engine, however the lifter oiling part of the diagram is valid for later Pontiac V8s as well.

[MartyVi]

Originally Posted by PontiacJim1959

X2 on the too heavy an oil. 15W-40, but 10W-30 should also work. It also will depend on your bearing clearances.

I agree on the 10w-30. I normally run that and that’s the oil I used to break in the engine. The only reason I went with 20w-50 was to see if there would be a difference. The only thing that changed was my idle pressure went from 30 ish to 50 ish. No difference in noise. Yes I know about the rear plug and if it wasn’t there it wouldn’t even have 25 psi pressure.
Also the Eagle rotating assembly kit has big rod side clearances. Something like .032
The mains are at .002 rods .0025
You would think that 50 psi as measured by the distributor would be enough even for the last 2 cylinders of the oil path. Wish I could put a pressure gauge just on the passenger side oil gallery just for curiosity sake. I did drill a small hole in the rear plug for distributor oiling. Something like .025.

[MartyVi]

Also with the valley pan off when I primed the engine before first start and a second time after the break in period all the lifters had the same amount of oil bleed in their bores which was not excessive.

[chiphead]

Did you do the lifter bore mod? The roller lifters use chevy bodies and sometimes have oiling issues on base circle.

[mgarblik]

You have a slight error in your description of how the lifters get their oil. The oil enters the block from the filter pad and does feed the main oil gallery on the left side. That main left side gallery feeds the entire engine except for the right side lifters. It is a series style oiling system. The front cam bearing has nothing to do with lifter oiling. It is the front MAIN bearing housing that has the 3 drillings in it. One is to feed the #1 main and the associated rod bearings, 1 is to supply the #1 cam bearing, and the last one is to supply the entire right side oil gallery and all 8 lifters on that side. Essentially, those 8 lifters are the LAST to get oil. But in reality, if the oil pump has enough capacity, all the galleries are under pressure when the engine is running. But, being the last to get oil in a series circuit, as everything else in the path leaks and bleeds off oil there may not be enough left for those lifters. Excessive bearing clearance, excessive lifter clearance, missing gallery plug could all drop supply and pressure to those right lifters.

[tom s]

Shaver lifters DONT use chevy bodies!Tom

[tom s]

.032 rod side clearance?Tom

[PontiacJim1959]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

You have a slight error in your description of how the lifters get their oil. The oil enters the block from the filter pad and does feed the main oil gallery on the left side. That main left side gallery feeds the entire engine except for the right side lifters. It is a series style oiling system. The front cam bearing has nothing to do with lifter oiling. It is the front MAIN bearing housing that has the 3 drillings in it. One is to feed the #1 main and the associated rod bearings, 1 is to supply the #1 cam bearing, and the last one is to supply the entire right side oil gallery and all 8 lifters on that side. Essentially, those 8 lifters are the LAST to get oil. But in reality, if the oil pump has enough capacity, all the galleries are under pressure when the engine is running. But, being the last to get oil in a series circuit, as everything else in the path leaks and bleeds off oil there may not be enough left for those lifters. Excessive bearing clearance, excessive lifter clearance, missing gallery plug could all drop supply and pressure to those right lifters.

Having never used a roller cam/lifters, I have read that with a Pontiac you should use the lifter bore restrictors to meter the oil to the roller lifters.

Is there any truth in that statement, or more of a race only type modification?

[MartyVi]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

You have a slight error in your description of how the lifters get their oil. The oil enters the block from the filter pad and does feed the main oil gallery on the left side. That main left side gallery feeds the entire engine except for the right side lifters. It is a series style oiling system. The front cam bearing has nothing to do with lifter oiling. It is the front MAIN bearing housing that has the 3 drillings in it. One is to feed the #1 main and the associated rod bearings, 1 is to supply the #1 cam bearing, and the last one is to supply the entire right side oil gallery and all 8 lifters on that side. Essentially, those 8 lifters are the LAST to get oil. But in reality, if the oil pump has enough capacity, all the galleries are under pressure when the engine is running. But, being the last to get oil in a series circuit, as everything else in the path leaks and bleeds off oil there may not be enough left for those lifters. Excessive bearing clearance, excessive lifter clearance, missing gallery plug could all drop supply and pressure to those right lifters.

Thank you and yes I mistakenly said number 1 cam bearing but it is number 1 main as you said. I massaged that area for clearance before line hone. And again I didn’t leave out the rear plug. It is the last four lifters that are the noisiest but 50 psi hot idle pressure is same pressure to every lifter and bearing. It’s a Melling 60 psi pump with a Butler bottom plate. Since pressure reading is just the resistance measure of flow one would assume it’s the same on pass side but there’s no way to measure.

[MartyVi]

Originally Posted by tom s

.032 rod side clearance?Tom

Yes Tom. I was kind of surprised myself but there’s nothing I can do about that. The rods all measured correctly. It’s the machining on the Eagle forged crank. Premium kit. But I also had similar reading on an all stock SD 455 engine with 41,000 miles. Maybe that’s why they chose to use an 80 psi pump. My oil pressure is good at any speed or temp so far on this new build. It’s 62 on start up and stays at 50 hot idle with the heavy oil which I will drain soon and put 10w-40.
We don’t get cold weather here in Los Angeles and I fully warm the engine before driving.

[geeteeohguy]

39 years ago when I built my first Pontiac engine the machinist left out all the oil galley plugs. I fixed the two in front behind the timing chain, but when the passenger side still clattered away, particularly number 6 and 8 cylinders, I stumbled on the problem. Missing galley plug at the back of the block behind the freeze plug. It was an all day job replacing that, pulling the trans, flywheel, etc. But that engine is still running strong in my '65 GTO today.

[MartyVi]

Ok guys I guess you are not reading the complete post. All the galley plugs are in there. Not my first pontiac engine build.
And it’s not so loud that it’s annoying but I’m trying to figure out if there’s some logical reason or someone’s experience. Most wouldn’t think anything of it but with a stethoscope I can hear it much louder under the valve cover. One side smooth like sewing machine the other side in particular last 2 cylinders sounds like a slightly loose mechanical rocker arm.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by PontiacJim1959

Having never used a roller cam/lifters, I have read that with a Pontiac you should use the lifter bore restrictors to meter the oil to the roller lifters.

Is there any truth in that statement, or more of a race only type modification?

You will get allot of different opinions on this. The cam and lifter companies always say DO NOT RESTRICT the oil to our parts! But Pontiacs have HUGE feed holes to the lifters and even though the lifters are supposed to be self-regulating, I personally feel way too much oil goes to the lifters, pushrods, rockers and springs. So I always restrict the oil to the lifters. I am building a SFT engine right now and I have .040" restrictors in every lifter bore. I use .045" restrictors in all my hydraulic lifter engines. Still have plenty of oil to the top of the engine. But the restrictions allow more oil to the Pontiac problem areas, specifically the main and rod bearings. Especially on the 3.25" large main engines. But I also like very high oil pressure, my personal opinion. Anything beyond a stock rebuild, I use an 80 lb. oil pump. Just the way I prefer to build them. I am willing to sacrifice the 3-5 HP loss @ 6000 + RPM's to keep bearings in the engine. Other very successful builders brag all the time about running no more than 30-35 PSI under any situation. I say more power to them, if they can make the engine live. As far as the OP's noisy lifters, I am not familiar with the lifters he is using, but it seems like he should have plenty of oil pressure to make them run quiet.

[i82much]

are they noisy all the time? i get some ticking only when my engine is hot, but it’s not very consistent. seems to come and go and i am not sure where it is coming from. honestly, i might just drive it until it either gets worse and i can find it, or i just get used to it.

[mgarblik]

Back to the OP's question. You didn't talk about rocker arms or valve covers. Or the valley cover. Any possibility those back rocker arms are just barely kissing the rocker covers, or drippers or something in there? How about the rocker arms just kissing the retainer on the backside? Slightly different valve stem heights can cause these tiny interferences that make a little noise. I would pull that cover and have a look in there. I hope you find it.