#1  
Old 07-06-2020, 03:50 PM
lucky1 lucky1 is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Laurel Md. 20723
Posts: 362
Default 66 center carb body to throttle plate gasket .

Hi, am replacing throttle base on my center carb.
The rebuild kit has two similar gaskets, one thicker than the other.
Which one do I use .
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	E5E71BB8-9248-4A42-B185-320FC3FE5A42.jpg
Views:	365
Size:	42.4 KB
ID:	544377  

  #2  
Old 07-06-2020, 04:29 PM
Dick Boneske's Avatar
Dick Boneske Dick Boneske is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Winneconne, Wisconsin
Posts: 5,387
Default

The thickness is not an issue, The important difference is the "vents" that aid in hot starting. Note that these vents are above the throttle plates, so do not add a vacuum leak.

Some may disagree, but this was an engineering change somewhere before 1963. I use the vented gaskets in all the restorations I do. I have six NOS Pontiac Tri-Power carbs that have never been apart. They all have the vented gaskets.

Definitely, use the vented gaskets.

__________________
BONESTOCK GOATS

'64 GTO Tripower Hardtop (Wife's Car)
'64 GTO Tripower Post Coupe (My Car)
'99 Bonneville SE Sedan
  #3  
Old 07-06-2020, 04:40 PM
lucky1 lucky1 is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Laurel Md. 20723
Posts: 362
Default Top or bottom ?

So, which one ?

  #4  
Old 07-06-2020, 05:51 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

The bottom gasket.
Tom V.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
  #5  
Old 07-06-2020, 07:57 PM
lucky1 lucky1 is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Laurel Md. 20723
Posts: 362
Default Thank you.

Thank you. 👍

  #6  
Old 07-07-2020, 10:43 AM
pfilean's Avatar
pfilean pfilean is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 1,932
Default

Quote:
Some may disagree, but this was an engineering change somewhere before 1963.
I have a copy of a Rochester bulletin dated 1958 which notes in a Pontiac Tri Power page:

" A vented throttle body to bowl gasket is used on all three carburetors to vent any fuel vapors which may form in the carburetor bores to the outside atmosphere. This feature greatly improves hot idle and hot engine starting."

Nothing is mentioned as to whether a hot idle compensator was also used at that time. But by 1959 Cadillac, Chevrolet and Oldsmobile used them and Pontiac had a hot idle compensator by 1961.

  #7  
Old 07-07-2020, 11:46 AM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

Hot Idle Compensator and the vented carb base gaskets do different jobs.

Hot Idle Compensator adds more rpm if the carb temp gets too hot.

Vented Gaskets help with restarts. But make emissions slightly higher after the car is parked.

Tom V.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
  #8  
Old 07-07-2020, 11:58 AM
60sstuff's Avatar
60sstuff 60sstuff is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Left Coast
Posts: 2,784
Default Vented gasket

Here are a few photos of my 66 Tri-Power carbs showing the center and rear vented gaskets.

Chris.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1E8064CD-78C9-464F-A41D-C8FEFF00CB30.jpg
Views:	324
Size:	79.1 KB
ID:	544424   Click image for larger version

Name:	46947D24-88C5-4DCD-92C3-7812D5E7A9E7.jpg
Views:	313
Size:	64.4 KB
ID:	544425   Click image for larger version

Name:	37FB5E7C-2D85-49B1-BE67-A03FB236D50B.jpg
Views:	330
Size:	88.9 KB
ID:	544426  

__________________
1) 65 GTO Survivor. 43,440 Original Miles. “Factory” Mayfair Maize Paint with Black Pinstripe, Black Cordova Top, Black Interior, OEM Numbers Matching Powertrain. Purchased from the Lady that bought it new. Baltimore Built (11A).
2) 66 GTO Survivor. “Factory” Cameo Ivory Paint with Red Pinstripe, Red Interior. OEM Numbers Matching Powertrain. Tri-Power (OEM Vacuum Linkage), Automatic "YR" code (1759 Produced). Fremont Built (01B), with the Rare 614 Option.
  #9  
Old 03-25-2022, 08:42 AM
chrisp chrisp is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: upper dublin Pa.
Posts: 2,937
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfilean View Post
I have a copy of a Rochester bulletin dated 1958 which notes in a Pontiac Tri Power page:

" A vented throttle body to bowl gasket is used on all three carburetors to vent any fuel vapors which may form in the carburetor bores to the outside atmosphere. This feature greatly improves hot idle and hot engine starting."

Nothing is mentioned as to whether a hot idle compensator was also used at that time. But by 1959 Cadillac, Chevrolet and Oldsmobile used them and Pontiac had a hot idle compensator by 1961.
By using the vented gaskets on all 3 carbs as stated that would allow unfiltered air to enter engine when throttle blades are open & why would the fuel vapors not just vent out the top of carbs as the end carbs have no choke & when hot the center carb choke is open ? I believe the vented gaskets may only be beneficial if carbs begin to flood as it would allow some of the fuel to exit & not all go past the throttle blades.

  #10  
Old 03-25-2022, 10:51 AM
pfilean's Avatar
pfilean pfilean is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 1,932
Default

I'm only quoting what Rochester said. I suppose it is such a small amount of unfiltered air that it doesn't matter. But it was their decision.

  #11  
Old 03-25-2022, 03:16 PM
Kenth's Avatar
Kenth Kenth is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Kingdom of Sweden
Posts: 5,457
Default

1966 center carbs uses the vented gasket #7015106.

Delco Rochester Bulletin 9C-627 Date: May, 1967 (1966 389 Tripower) calls for the non-vented Throttle Body gasket #7015345 in end carbs.
Same gasket used on ALL 1959-66 Pontiac Tripower end carbs.

In older Bulletins dated December 1965 ALL 1959-66 end carbs used the vented #7015106 gasket

In Bulletins dated May 1967 ALL 1957-58 Tripower carbs and ALL 1959-65 center Tripower carbs w/o HIC uses vented gasket #7015148.
1959-65 center carbs w/HIC uses vented gasket #7013680.

In older Bulletins Dated 1957 all 1957-58 Tripower carbs uses non-vented gasket #7011326.

I have found using gaskets in the revised bulletins will work best.

FWIW

__________________
1966 GTO Tri-Power
1970 GTO TheJudge
http://www.poci.org/
http://gtoaa.org/
  #12  
Old 03-25-2022, 05:47 PM
carbking's Avatar
carbking carbking is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Eldon, Missouri 65026
Posts: 3,625
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
By using the vented gaskets on all 3 carbs as stated that would allow unfiltered air to enter engine when throttle blades are open & why would the fuel vapors not just vent out the top of carbs as the end carbs have no choke & when hot the center carb choke is open ? I believe the vented gaskets may only be beneficial if carbs begin to flood as it would allow some of the fuel to exit & not all go past the throttle blades.
It was in a different lifetime (maybe 1975 or so), so I do not remember the exact words; however:

I asked about these to a Rochester engineer (who had heard the question before ) and he told me: (a) the vents relieve excess pressure in the throttle body area under hot idle and slow running conditions thereby alleviating an over-rich condition, and (b) the vents connect to a "dead" area in the throttle body, so virtually zero air would ever enter the carburetor, only exit.

If someone has a new old stock Rochester carburetor kit from the early 1960's (I junked all of mine); one will find, in addition to the adjustment sheet, a small yellow sheet stating something to the effect "the gaskets in this kit are correct, use them". I guess Rochester got a few inquiries early on.

Jon.

__________________
"Good carburetion is fuelish hot air".

"The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one given to you by your neighbor".

If you truly believe that "one size fits all" try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes!

Owner of The Carburetor Shop, LLC (of Missouri).

Current caretaker of the remains of Stromberg Caburetor, and custodian of the existing Carter and Kingston carburetor drawings.
  #13  
Old 03-25-2022, 05:58 PM
carbking's Avatar
carbking carbking is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Eldon, Missouri 65026
Posts: 3,625
Default

Here is the reference quoted by pfilean:

https://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Hotidle1.jpg

Jon

__________________
"Good carburetion is fuelish hot air".

"The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one given to you by your neighbor".

If you truly believe that "one size fits all" try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes!

Owner of The Carburetor Shop, LLC (of Missouri).

Current caretaker of the remains of Stromberg Caburetor, and custodian of the existing Carter and Kingston carburetor drawings.
  #14  
Old 02-03-2023, 04:42 PM
Bermuda Blue Bermuda Blue is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 481
Default

From Rochester manual:

"An important design feature used in the Rochester 2-bore carburetor is throttled body venting. Its purpose is to give a quicker hot engine starting after the engine has been shut down for a short period. During extreme hot engine operation, the fuel in the carburetor tends to boil and vaporize due to engine
heat. Some of the fuel vapor tends to reach the carburetor bores and condense on the throttle valves and seep into the engine manifold; by venting the area just above the throttle valves, hot engine starting time can be reduced to a minimum, on applications where the carburetor is exposed to extreme engine heat. There are two methods used in venting the throttle bore area.

1. A special throttle body to bowl gasket is used. See Figure 5A. This gasket has cut-out areas that vent fuel vapors from the carburetor bores just above the throttle valves.

2. The other type of venting is accomplished by drilled holes through the throttle body casting just above the throttle valves. See Figure 5B. They serve the same purpose as the vented gasket.

The location of the vent holes is such that they will not disrupt engine idle or off-idle operation. They are
located above the throttle valves on the side opposite the mixture screws, in an area where the transfer
from idle to the main metering will not be affected."

  #15  
Old 02-05-2023, 02:19 AM
Dick Boneske's Avatar
Dick Boneske Dick Boneske is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Winneconne, Wisconsin
Posts: 5,387
Default

I use the vented gaskets on all restorations, center and rear carbs. I've had very good results building the carbs this way-fast hot starting, and smooth idle.

I am still trying to figure out why Pontiac added the .026" holes in the end carb throttle plates. This was done in 1964 and continued through 1966. I believe.the purpose is to bleed a very small amount of air and fuel through the end carbs to prevent the formation of varnish in the end carb float bowls if the end carbs are not "exercised." Does anyone have another theory about this?

__________________
BONESTOCK GOATS

'64 GTO Tripower Hardtop (Wife's Car)
'64 GTO Tripower Post Coupe (My Car)
'99 Bonneville SE Sedan
  #16  
Old 02-05-2023, 07:14 AM
Kenth's Avatar
Kenth Kenth is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Kingdom of Sweden
Posts: 5,457
Default

I also use the vented gaskets in all but 1964-66 Pontiac end carbs.
The latest factory info calls for the closed 7015345 gasket to these.
I can´t imagine the small .030" holes in the throttle valves will pull fuel from the float chamber in any amounts or at all.
My conclusion on the holes is that they are there to pull any excess of fuel vapor residue for combustion to preven varnish build up on throttle valve edges, where other carbs with the vented gasket vents the vapors to the atmosphere.

FWIW

__________________
1966 GTO Tri-Power
1970 GTO TheJudge
http://www.poci.org/
http://gtoaa.org/

Last edited by Kenth; 02-05-2023 at 07:21 AM.
  #17  
Old 05-22-2023, 11:19 AM
ejgoat ejgoat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 125
Default

which one is vented, top or bottom

  #18  
Old 05-22-2023, 12:14 PM
Dick Boneske's Avatar
Dick Boneske Dick Boneske is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Winneconne, Wisconsin
Posts: 5,387
Default

The bottom gasket with the llots is the vented one.

__________________
BONESTOCK GOATS

'64 GTO Tripower Hardtop (Wife's Car)
'64 GTO Tripower Post Coupe (My Car)
'99 Bonneville SE Sedan
  #19  
Old 05-22-2023, 12:17 PM
Dick Boneske's Avatar
Dick Boneske Dick Boneske is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Winneconne, Wisconsin
Posts: 5,387
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenth View Post
I also use the vented gaskets in all but 1964-66 Pontiac end carbs.
The latest factory info calls for the closed 7015345 gasket to these.
I can´t imagine the small .030" holes in the throttle valves will pull fuel from the float chamber in any amounts or at all.
My conclusion on the holes is that they are there to pull any excess of fuel vapor residue for combustion to preven varnish build up on throttle valve edges, where other carbs with the vented gasket vents the vapors to the atmosphere.

FWIW
Why do you not use the vented base gaskets in the '64-'66 carbs? Is it because these end carbs have the holes in the throttle plates? Other than that, these carbs are functionally identical to the '59-'63 end carbs.

I drill the small holes in all restorations of the large end carbs, regardless of application, whether the 997 or 683 float bowls.

__________________
BONESTOCK GOATS

'64 GTO Tripower Hardtop (Wife's Car)
'64 GTO Tripower Post Coupe (My Car)
'99 Bonneville SE Sedan
  #20  
Old 05-22-2023, 05:29 PM
Kenth's Avatar
Kenth Kenth is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Kingdom of Sweden
Posts: 5,457
Default

Dick, it should read:
"I also use the vented gaskets in all but 1959-66 Pontiac end carbs..
The latest factory info calls for the closed 7015345 gasket to these."

The Delco/Rochester bulletins dated may 1967 and later have the #7015345 gasket for 1959-66 Pontiac Tri-Power end carbs, and since they work, why not?

__________________
1966 GTO Tri-Power
1970 GTO TheJudge
http://www.poci.org/
http://gtoaa.org/
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:48 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017