#41  
Old 01-17-2019, 10:53 AM
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Back in the day 180 was always the sweet spot. Newer stuff they always wanted to run hotter for emissions I guess. Old school I guess I like it a little cooler lol.

  #42  
Old 01-17-2019, 10:58 AM
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Not entirely true Zegermanham,

When you're pushing the pump gas envelope like my father is, you don't really want to run the engine anywhere near 200 degrees on 91 octane. That just invites and increases the possibility of potential detonation issues. Especially when you're in Arizona and the ambient temps here can reach 115 degrees in the summer months.

The other issue is the fact that you want to keep the fuel, and the underhood temps at a reasonable level. Pump fuel doesn't like heat and higher temps simply allow other issues to creep in like hard hot starting issues, or even vapor lock. Discussed this issue in depth before with people here running 195 thermostats and can't understand why the cars vapor lock or flood or won't start when it's hot.

We've experimented with this stuff for years, pushing pump gas compression as well as daily driving these cars in all conditions, and I can safely say running the engines in the 175 range keeps the fuel happier, better drivability, and has had absolutely no detrimental affects on engine wear or longevity. All running them hotter accomplishes is burning off more hydrocarbons, and keeps the cat converters happy on the newer stuff. Not necessary on a classic that has next to no emissions equipment.

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Old 01-20-2019, 01:19 PM
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I've had my Champion for about 5 years now....no issues with over 600 hp.

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  #44  
Old 01-20-2019, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by carcrazy View Post
I've had my Champion for about 5 years now....no issues with over 600 hp.
That's great, glad to hear something positive lol. I think the cold case I just installed will be fine, find out when it gets hot outside.

  #45  
Old 01-21-2019, 05:01 AM
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I've never seen a dyno operator set the coolant temp at 200+ degrees for max power. Quite the opposite is true - cooler temps on the dyno equals more horsepower and that holds true for the street. Now those pesky smog readings might not be as good as running 200° or hotter, but most of us don't worry about them.

I have a hard time relating cooling to max horsepower. All things being equal it's going to take a specific amount of horsepower (and really not that much) to accelerate somewhat normally on the street and maintain cruising speed. A very well tuned 500 horse engine is going to generate a lot less BTU's than a poorly tuned 300 horse engine at cruising speed. CCASS made an excellent point in that radiator size, area of tube exposure, and fin count is going to determine final cooling ability. If the BTU cooling requirement is under the maximum your radiator can supply, life will be good. It's just incorrect to say that the 3-core worked for me so it will work for everyone.

I got by with no cooling problems using the original '67 H.O. stock under-driven water pump, 18" 7-blade fan, and original 4-core brass radiator. Always ran at or very close to thermostat. I added Vintage Air and quickly found out that the new BTU requirement was beyond my old equipment. So far just adding the AC over-driven pulleys and severe duty fan clutch has put me on the good side of the cooling curve last summer. I'm betting I'm still screwed if it's 105° out and caught in bumper to bumper traffic. So next upgrade will be going with the deeper core support and taller radiator along with the 19.5" AC fan and shroud -- and I'm not spending this kind of money on everything to scrimp on the radiator.

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Last edited by lust4speed; 01-21-2019 at 05:08 AM.
  #46  
Old 01-21-2019, 08:55 AM
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I have used Champion's in many of my old Pontiac cars. None of which were making all that much power. Mostly stock with 068 cams and that sort of thing, no issues no leaks.

Current iteration in my Tempest makes 500+ HP. I have a Griffin with 2, 1.25" rows and a 180 T-stat and Mark VIII fan. Anything below 90* outside air temp and it runs at t-stat. Over 90* she will run at 205* all day. 2500 miles on Power Tour in June getting on it, and sitting in 100* heat in Tennessee I saw 215* but not higher. I do have the smaller A/C water pump pulley and larger crank pulley with plate clearanced to a gasket thickness as well. I really recommend the Griffin with the larger tubes if you can make it fit.

That's my 0.02$.

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  #47  
Old 01-26-2019, 10:25 PM
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I just swapped out my cold case regular non ac 64 radiator for the 66-67 cross flow HD radiator but still the same size as the stock non ac radiator because that is the core support I have. I am running the 19 inch ac clutch fan spaced about 3/4 of an inch away from the radiator with no shroud because none will fit that core support with that size fan. The fan moves air like a tornado so I figure I am better off with that big fan and no shroud than a smaller fan and the chinsy stock shroud. If I have overheating problems I guess I will add a pusher fan and if that doesn’t work I don’t know because I don’t see how a two inch taller radiator can make that big of a difference. Just can’t be that much more water. The HD radiator is a crossflow design with two cores and 1.25 inch tubes.

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  #48  
Old 01-27-2019, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 64speed View Post
I just swapped out my cold case regular non ac 64 radiator for the 66-67 cross flow HD radiator but still the same size as the stock non ac radiator because that is the core support I have. I am running the 19 inch ac clutch fan spaced about 3/4 of an inch away from the radiator with no shroud because none will fit that core support with that size fan. The fan moves air like a tornado so I figure I am better off with that big fan and no shroud than a smaller fan and the chinsy stock shroud. If I have overheating problems I guess I will add a pusher fan and if that doesn’t work I don’t know because I don’t see how a two inch taller radiator can make that big of a difference. Just can’t be that much more water. The HD radiator is a crossflow design with two cores and 1.25 inch tubes.
It would be best to use the non AC shroud that is available and then switch to a 7 blade fan that fits the opening. 1/2 in 1/2 out.

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  #49  
Old 01-28-2019, 12:37 PM
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I've got a Champion 3 row in my bird. I did have problems in stop and go traffic in the summer. It was only once, but it was bad enough that I was concerned.
I'm running a 7 blade clutch fan with non-ac shroud.

I might look into the Cold case with the fans+controller. My car is far from stock so the appearance is not as important as function.

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Old 01-28-2019, 04:29 PM
Mickey_London Mickey_London is offline
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After a lot of help I have a Cold Case Radiator winging its way over the Atlantic to me :-)
Thanks
Mick

  #51  
Old 03-25-2019, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by GTO JONES View Post
I just put a cold case in my 69 GTO with twin 12" fans, did have a 4 core In it that did fine but on a hot day going down the highway at 60mph or so it would heat up to 190-195 which I personally don't care for. At slower speeds it would do fine. I'm hoping the cold case will keep it cool at highway speed. It looks great and fit perfect no complaints so far. Just my 2 cents worth.
Well the verdict is in on this dual fan Cold Case setup. Driven it enough to get a feel. Back and forth to Phoenix on the highway for 200 miles and around town quite a bit.

Works fine idling and in slow stop and go traffic. Fans kick on and off as they should and it will quickly pull this 571ci down to where ever we care to set the fans. Has no issue pulling it down to 170 degrees while idling and will do so in about 60 seconds.

However on the highway it will quickly heat up to 195 and creep from there with no sign of cooling down. Ambient temps outside were only in the 60's after sunset so it shouldn't run warm at all, the old copper radiator and stock shroud and clutch fan didn't run this warm on the highway with ambient temps this cool, so I knew there was an issue. Didn't seem to matter if we were cruising at 55 mph at 2600-ish rpm or 62-63 mph at 3,000 rpm. As it kept creeping closer to 200 we decided to pull off and check things.
For an experiment, I cranked up the rheostat to force the fans to constantly run and quickly got back on the highway. The entire remainder of the trip, about 50 miles of highway driving, it never got over 185 degrees.

So my hypothesis is that at speed, with this completely blocked off shroud that is also very boxy and close to the back side of the radiator simply isn't allowing airflow through the radiator at speed. It's hitting this aluminum shroud and bouncing off creating turbulence. Once both fans were forced on however, the engine immediately ran nearly 15 degrees cooler at speed, as the fans were helping to pull that stagnant air through the shroud. It appears the fans by themselves simply don't allow enough air to pass through the shroud at speed, and the design of the shroud, being completely squared off and only an inch away from the back of the radiator just isn't enough.

My solution is likely going to be some relief openings in the aluminum shroud with thin rubber attached in a way that they are pushed open at speed, and sucked shut when the fans kick on at low speeds. Pretty much exactly how the Be-Cool setups are that I've used in the past. This should alleviate any stagnant air trapped in the shroud without the need to constantly run the fans. Simple, cheap, and easy solution. Then drive it some more this summer and see how things go. Worse case scenario may end up with a different type of shroud and fan setup.

  #52  
Old 03-25-2019, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Formulajones View Post

However on the highway it will quickly heat up to 195 and creep from there with no sign of cooling down.

So my hypothesis is that at speed, with this completely blocked off shroud that is also very boxy and close to the back side of the radiator simply isn't allowing airflow through the radiator at speed.

My solution is likely going to be some relief openings in the aluminum shroud with thin rubber attached in a way that they are pushed open at speed, and sucked shut when the fans kick on at low speeds. Pretty much exactly how the Be-Cool setups are that I've used in the past.
With a big motor and tall gears, this can happen with the CC closed shroud. CC makes a rubber flapper kit for the shroud. That should bring those highway temps down.

Shoot me a PM and I'll send you a kit.

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  #53  
Old 03-25-2019, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Ccass View Post
With a big motor and tall gears, this can happen with the CC closed shroud. CC makes a rubber flapper kit for the shroud. That should bring those highway temps down.

Shoot me a PM and I'll send you a kit.
I was not aware you made a flapper kit. How about that Makes my job easier.

PM sent.

  #54  
Old 04-03-2019, 11:03 PM
brooknice brooknice is offline
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Originally Posted by Ccass View Post
With a big motor and tall gears, this can happen with the CC closed shroud. CC makes a rubber flapper kit for the shroud. That should bring those highway temps down.

Shoot me a PM and I'll send you a kit.
I just order my cold case last week from jegs I just got it today. Box was beat up a little but we will see how it does next year. It will be in there hopefully with a new turbo motor.
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  #55  
Old 04-28-2019, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ccass View Post
With a big motor and tall gears, this can happen with the CC closed shroud. CC makes a rubber flapper kit for the shroud. That should bring those highway temps down.

Shoot me a PM and I'll send you a kit.
We tried a couple of different ways to see what would work in my case. Using the temperature bulb in the radiator didn't work the best for me so I ended up using the temperature switch (175-185) in the front of the intake. This seams to work the best controlling the fans and keeping the temp down where I like it to be going down the highway where it was heating up. Thanks for your help.

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