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Old 05-20-2015, 02:57 AM
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Update:

I decided to replicate my buddy Mike's setup (Hayden 2797 severe duty clutch, 19" factory fan, and repro stock shroud).

8 miles on the highway at 3k rpm, and it stayed at 175. This time it was 85* out. Now I see temps drop when I start getting up to speed, and the only temp creep I get is a few degrees when stopped at a stop light. It used to cool down at idle and creep up at cruise. Now it reacts differently with only the change in air flow - minor creep at idle by a few degrees, and cools down at speed. It is progress, and I hope it continues to work this summer.

Ponyakr, the Goodmark shroud IS an OER shroud. In fact, it has the OER sticker and part number on it, at a $21 higher price than the OER piece outright. I called Summit and threw the BS flag. They refunded me the difference.

The OER shroud wasn't horrible, but just wasn't as rigid as a factory shroud. That can be a problem when softer plastic warps and gets shaved by a fan blade. I had to trim it on the top edge and the corner at the lower hose. I also had to do some creative mounting because my fan would have shredded it if I used the factory L bracket to hold the shroud.

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  #22  
Old 05-20-2015, 09:01 AM
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Default fan and shroud

Squid my setup is similar, as are my results.

Factory original shroud, 7 blade AC fan and Hayden HD fanclutch, with two row aluminum
radiator(1" rows). Creeps up a hair at idle but cools down when moving down the road.
Also run smaller WP pulley and all baffles above, below and on sides of radiator to duplicate and AC setup.
Running a 160 stat now as I did a cam swap during the winter and wanted to keep
motor a little cooler for a few hundred miles.
So far only saw 180 when car was shutoff to go into store, once restarted she came right
back to 170 instantly and then evened out.

All little cooling improvements add up!!

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  #23  
Old 06-01-2015, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68 Firebird View Post
Squid my setup is similar, as are my results.

Factory original shroud, 7 blade AC fan and Hayden HD fanclutch, with two row aluminum
radiator(1" rows). Creeps up a hair at idle but cools down when moving down the road.
Also run smaller WP pulley and all baffles above, below and on sides of radiator to duplicate and AC setup.
Running a 160 stat now as I did a cam swap during the winter and wanted to keep
motor a little cooler for a few hundred miles.
So far only saw 180 when car was shutoff to go into store, once restarted she came right
back to 170 instantly and then evened out.

All little cooling improvements add up!!
Glad to hear of your success!

I went out cruising today for several miles, picking up pizza, etc.

It goes up 5 or so degrees at idle, but comes right back down to 160's once cruise is resumed. Outside temps were 104.

I'm pleased so far! I might have to put a Tstat back in.

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Old 08-17-2015, 10:59 PM
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68blackbird 68blackbird is offline
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I'm going through the same thing. Car has always worked great at speed. No over heating on the highway. It's just at idle that I have heating issues. No billing over, but 210 to 215 on 95 degree days can happen depending on how long I'm idling for. My 2797 clutch should be here in the morning. Maybe that will help.

My request: please post up water pump and crankshaft pulley diameters. Thank you.

Rich

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  #25  
Old 08-18-2015, 08:27 AM
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Default pulley

7.25 crank pulley - stock
6.00 water pump - aluminum march
HD hayden fan clutch with spring adj mod
aluminum rad with 2 rows that are 1"
7 blade fan from 76 TA with auto and AC
RobertShaw 160 thermostat



tried 8" crank pulley, but not enough
clearance from subframe. too close for
comfort.

Gerry

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  #26  
Old 08-19-2015, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68 Firebird View Post
...tried 8" crank pulley, but not enough
clearance from subframe. too close for comfort. Gerry
It is really close to the cross member, but '68 Firebird A/C cars came with the 8" bottom pulley. Ours looks to have less than a 1/4", but hasn't scraped. I'd suspect engine mount condition would affect the final distance.

A few comments reading through the thread. I also found equal cooling between the 19.5" 7-blade flex fan and the 19.5 7-blade clutch fan with the 2797 fan clutch -- but the noise from the flex fan was too much for me. I still have the flex fan on the shelf, and if my hearing gets much worse, it will be an option.

Tested water pump pulleys down to a 6", and each time the pulley got smaller the cooling got better. Also, have tested and found that not having a thermostat runs as cool as either a good thermostat or modified ring restriction. Maybe Chevy needs some sort of restriction, but haven't seen this with a Pontiac engine. We've also observed that a properly working thermostat doesn't add to engine temps either - so no reason to not to run one on a street car.

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  #27  
Old 08-19-2015, 08:35 AM
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Default 8" pulley

I still have the pulley and will have to retry it.
Since AC cars had it, it should be fine then.
How much clearance do you have??
aslong as its enough to get belt on it should be good then.

Gerry

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  #28  
Old 08-22-2015, 05:37 AM
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I had problems with getting the belt past the pulley and crossmember a couple of engines ago. During a motor swap I realized that the motor mounts and tranny mount allow for quite a bit of adjustment. I pushed the motor/tranny back, tightened the bolts down, and all was good.

I am running an AC WP pulley, something like 6 or 6.5". I can't remember the part numbers.

I still haven't put a thermostat in it. I've been pleased all summer, but it still creeps at idle. I just avoid lengthy drive-thrus.

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  #29  
Old 08-22-2015, 11:09 PM
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Installed Hayden 2747 last week... no better then the old clutch fan I had. Tonight I install a Hayden 2797. Idled in the driveway for an hour 85 deg ambient, 180 deg thermostat. Rock solid at 190... With the hood open in nuetral.

Yes I am running e85 right now. I do have some more work to do on this, but that's the first time I have not just watched the gauge slowly creep up. I've tried all kinds of pulleys that have just made the belts squeal. I will try them again now that I'm getting closer on keeping the heat under control.

car has always stayed cool at speed. Gets to T stat temp and stays there with the 7 1/4 pulleys. It's always been the idle cooling that has been the problem for me.

aluminum 2 row Rodney Red 1" tubes
7 blade steel fan
Hayden 2797 fan clutch
Shroud
Rad support baffles not installed
7 1/4 water pump pulley
7 1/4 crank pulley
180 degree stat

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Last edited by 68blackbird; 08-22-2015 at 11:24 PM.
  #30  
Old 08-31-2015, 08:07 PM
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Thumbs up Temp during the Heatwave

Well I got to take a nice long 90 minute run tonight. Temp was 93
and THICK humidity. She ran 165 on the highway parts and
climbed to 180 while we were at drive thru getting milk shakes(long wait).
Dropped right back down to 170 and then after a few miles back to
165. Every light she would rise up to 170 and then drop to 165 when moving.
I think the cooling system is tweaked to the extent I can do without putting
an 8" crank pulley on. I have no complaints just wanted to share results on
this god awful scorcher of a day. A few years ago I would have feared the temp
gauge and got quesy as she rose up.
And the secondary moan getting on the highway is awesome!!!!!

Gerry

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  #31  
Old 08-31-2015, 09:08 PM
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That's awesome. So nice to know the gauge just doesn't keep going up. I'm curious if you put a 180 thermostat in it if it would just stay at the stat temp?

Rich

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  #32  
Old 08-31-2015, 10:01 PM
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Default stat

Well Last few years I ran a 180 and didn't like seeing 190-195. Maybe its me but
I like the cooler water temps, and today was a scorcher when not moving. Worst was the wait for shakes. My daughter likes to go for rides and with school starting this week we went for it.
Did a cam/lifter swap last winter and crower recommended the 160 high flow.
This was their suggestion during breakin and I just left it.
Using their cam saver Lifters and still have 20PSI at screamin hot idle coming off highway!!!!
Also trans guru always told me a cool TH400 is a happy one.
Car will heat soak to 185-190 and then drop instantly once restarted and return to 165.
IF you need a 180, drop by you can have mine!!!!!!

Gerry

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  #33  
Old 09-26-2015, 07:54 AM
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Squid,
Can you give an update on your end? I think it's time for me to follow in your footsteps and trash the Taurus fan for a 7 blade clutch and shroud.

I just have no idea what shroud will fit. I have an aluminum radiator of unknown origin, (I gotta find or measure it, I think it was 21 x 16, Squid, do you recall? I'm not home to measure), I have no idea what pulley sizes.

Found it. Radiator size:
aluminum*radiator's 21"x18" surface area,

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Last edited by AdamIsAdam; 09-26-2015 at 08:15 AM.
  #34  
Old 05-21-2019, 07:17 AM
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Default cooling update

Well been a few years and here is the updates. Well after she got out of body shop last year, I noted some weeping from water pump. Decided to go with shorter snout pump from Ames(11bolt 4" hub height). this allowed to remove all spacers from behind crank pulley and ALT/PWR steering bracket. Now since I had correct clearance from crank pulley to subframe I was able to install an 8" crank pulley. retained the 6.5"WP pulley and retained 2797 fan clutch for testing. Using a 9796134 7 blade AC fan. Noted fan only 1/3 into fan shroud(water pump snout is 1/2" shorter), but still cooled ok. To get fan further into shroud I decided to try a Hayden 2731 HD Fan clutch. This clutch shaft is 3/4" longer and fan is no 50/50 within in shroud. Using a Superstat 180 stat because I do like heat on chilly days. Testing well and so far having fan further in shroud and 8" CP work well. No FAN NOISE or squeals, belts are perfectly aligned. Gerry Again my car does not have AC, just like the extra cooling. I have retained original WP and Crank pulleys along with 5 blade original powerflex fan as wall art. I know the whole pulley alignment after timing cover conversion is a pain and I hated the look of spacers.

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  #35  
Old 05-24-2019, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68 Firebird View Post
Well been a few years and here is the updates. Well after she got out of body shop last year, I noted some weeping from water pump. Decided to go with shorter snout pump from Ames(11bolt 4" hub height). this allowed to remove all spacers from behind crank pulley and ALT/PWR steering bracket. Now since I had correct clearance from crank pulley to subframe I was able to install an 8" crank pulley. retained the 6.5"WP pulley and retained 2797 fan clutch for testing. Using a 9796134 7 blade AC fan. Noted fan only 1/3 into fan shroud(water pump snout is 1/2" shorter), but still cooled ok. To get fan further into shroud I decided to try a Hayden 2731 HD Fan clutch. This clutch shaft is 3/4" longer and fan is no 50/50 within in shroud. Using a Superstat 180 stat because I do like heat on chilly days. Testing well and so far having fan further in shroud and 8" CP work well. No FAN NOISE or squeals, belts are perfectly aligned. Gerry Again my car does not have AC, just like the extra cooling. I have retained original WP and Crank pulleys along with 5 blade original powerflex fan as wall art. I know the whole pulley alignment after timing cover conversion is a pain and I hated the look of spacers.
Glad you have a nicely working system.

I went from short nose 11 bolt ('69 accessory configuration) to a long nose 11 bolt. The only thing required was a wp pulley swap. There are 3 part numbers in particular that are the beez kneez for this conversion, assuming you will be using a dual groove pulley for power steering and alt belts. Here is a link to a thread I had going in the cooling section:
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=815181

FWIW, of course! I went long nose pump for cost reasons after my short nose pump started slipping the impeller on the shaft.

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