[455HOGT37]

I have pics, I just need a good way to scan them and get them to you. It's going to happen eventually.

I'll talk to the owner of my old Bird, but I suspect that he's not interested in a "correct" car. Though he's very savvy and aware of the classic Pontiacs he has not even pulled the PHS on this particular car. He's afraid it will turn out to be too rare to enjoy. Its a 400, 4-speed, hood tach, deluxe interior, fold down rear seat, 4 piston disc car... So there's a chance it is something special, but sometimes ignorance is bliss.

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by 455HOGT37

I have pics, I just need a good way to scan them and get them to you. It's going to happen eventually.

I'll talk to the owner of my old Bird, but I suspect that he's not interested in a "correct" car. Though he's very savvy and aware of the classic Pontiacs he has not even pulled the PHS on this particular car. He's afraid it will turn out to be too rare to enjoy. Its a 400, 4-speed, hood tach, deluxe interior, fold down rear seat, 4 piston disc car... So there's a chance it is something special, but sometimes ignorance is bliss.

Mike, Ship your pictures to me and I'll scan them and send your originals back along with a thumb-drive with them all on it. I'll pay for shipping both ways.

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

It's only been a couple years since the last update, but I've been gathering parts for the 455HO rebuild. I'm building a new 455HO motor and leaving the original block and heads on the shelf. The block is actually a std. bore '73 vintage 2-bolt main block and the '71 HO heads are proper 'no-date' heads that Dan has already gone through with new 1-piece SS valves (stock), springs, retainers, etc. The original HD M-13 3-speed will be set aside for a rebuilt BW-ST-10 with a 2.64 first gear. The body is going to need a little attention with a small patch panel and rear window jamb repair. I have a replacement dash, AC stuff, under hood wiring and other various trim pieces (thanks Lynn-66carguy) along with a better Formula wheel.

The GT-37 finally gets its turn in the garage! That should make Mike (455HO GT37) happy...

Dennis

[Judge273]

Can't wait to get all three of our cars together for a photo shoot!

[SD455DJ]

The original block is already .030 over and the heads have a couple cracks in the intake seats on both heads and a couple of broken valve guide towers on one, but hopefully are repairable. I'll be looking for a manual non-RA Q-jet (7041267) if anybody knows of one lying around (yeah...fat chance, I know). I have the original aluminum intake, iron crossover and the tin, and found an original 455HO dual snorkel air cleaner at Norwalk last year, so I have most all the hard to find parts in hand now. I bought a repro 70-72 hood tach with the vent nipple, in-line dryer, and hosing from Randy Watson for the AC suitcase.

Then I have to restore the 14x7 Honeycombs, do a little sheet metal patch to the trunk floor, repair the rear window channel rust, patch toe lower passenger quarter, then go through the brakes and suspension too...not to mention some interior work to make it presentable (headliner, carpet, visor mirrors, dash & bezel, etc.). There is a lot to do over the winter to get the GT-37 ready for the road...should be fun.

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

Well, not much has happened since last September due to the car pictured below getting in the way of things. But, the silver lining in this is that the GT-37 is going to get a new 455HO engine as a result of a cars version of 'musical chairs' with a series of engine swaps between the A-bodies in the collection...the GT-37 will get the short block from the '70 Lemans (455 + .040"/2802 Summit cam/fresh 455HO heads, intake, 7041267 Qjet)...the Lemans will get the 462 out of the Tempest with a iron intake a Q-jet...and the Tempest will get an all new XV 400 (factory rated at 330 hp/440 tq) built for the Pure Stock Drags (at the machine shop currently). We've already pulled the drivetrain out of the Tempest and will be pulling the Lemans apart in a couple of weeks when the weather settles down. The GT-37 is completely dismantled, so is prime to be reassembled with its new motor, BW-ST10 wide box (2.64 1st gear) and original 3.31 12-bolt posi.

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

Here is a picture of the 197 HO heads being CC'd last week...how about 108.0 cc's across the board. Dan said that was the first time that's happened when all 8 chambers were identical. With the short block at .040 over and zero decked with a .037" crush on the head gasket, the compression ratio is 8.62 to 1, so pretty low, but very safe with 91 octane fuel. We're going to keep the 2802 cam (224/234/114 at .466/".488") and should be just fine with the compression.

Dennis

[Judge273]

Professor Jensen in the lab...

[SD455DJ]

Mike - are the Rally II's on your GT-37 code 'KT'? I'm thinking about finding a set for this car to mix it up with the honeycombs. It's amazing how much heavier the HC's are than the RII's. I prefer the RII's on the GT-37's (and A-bodies), buy the HC's on the Firebirds.

Dennis

[Rocco Testa]

Both of your cars look like real nice. When I was growing up a guy had a new blue on with judge strips on it. The car was fast as hell. I don't know the year or motor size of the car but it was a 4 speed. I think it was a 71 gt37. Good luck with your car,

[SD455DJ]

Thanks Rocco!

[SD455DJ]

Dan and I pulled the 455 out of the '70 Lemans and noticed the oil pan was rocking on the crossmember and the center-link was rubbing against it too. There were corresponding 'rub' marks on the oil pan too! I'm so glad we are swapping motors between three cars otherwise I would have never known about this...I wonder how long before the center-link wore a hole in through the oil pan!

Obviously, the new motor mounts I bought are crap and compress too much and don't resist any motor rocking. I wonder if our hosts Mighty Mounts ( $100) would do any better than the standard $20 ones we used. We didn't notice any damage to the crossmember at all. I recall someone was fabricating 1/4" steel spacers to go between the crossmember and frame mounts, or we may have to fabricate our own if the mighty Mounts don't raise the engine any.

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

Heads are on the .040" over 455 short block out of the Lemans...maybe with 1000 miles on it at the most since 2015. The cam is staying as is the Summit 2802 and lifters which look great. The Cometic .030" head gaskets were reused too and reused after a dousing of copper coat. I think the GT-37 will be the first drivable car this summer! I can't wait!

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

The motor is looking more like a 455HO every day, especially with a fresh cost of robins egg blue engine paint. Intake and exhaust manifolds are next to get cleaned and painted. Then need to decide if the original M-13 3-spd goes back in if it checks out all right. I hope it does...I'd like to reunite the entire drive train to be as close to original as possible.

Dennis

[Mister Pontiac]

Originally Posted by SD455DJ

Dan and I pulled the 455 out of the '70 Lemans and noticed the oil pan was rocking on the crossmember and the center-link was rubbing against it too. There were corresponding 'rub' marks on the oil pan too! I'm so glad we are swapping motors between three cars otherwise I would have never known about this...I wonder how long before the center-link wore a hole in through the oil pan!

Obviously, the new motor mounts I bought are crap and compress too much and don't resist any motor rocking. I wonder if our hosts Mighty Mounts ( $100) would do any better than the standard $20 ones we used. We didn't notice any damage to the crossmember at all. I recall someone was fabricating 1/4" steel spacers to go between the crossmember and frame mounts, or we may have to fabricate our own if the mighty Mounts don't raise the engine any.

Dennis

I had this same issue on my 72 LeMans GT recently due to the old saggy mounts. In fact, they were sagging so bad, the factory clutch fan was rubbing the lower portion of the factory shroud. I knew it was time to do something different.

I thought about it a lot too and finally decided to install correct 455 frame and engine mounts when I dropped in the 455 recently. I ordered up a set of repop mounts and now have plenty of clearance (I can get my finger in between the pan and center-link & crossmember). So it was well worth the extra couple hundred dollars to me.

I also think that because the 455 frame mounts bolt on farther forward on the crossmember (as well as being wider/stronger), it keeps the engine from compressing down on the mounts as hard retaining the clearance better.

Anyway, just my experience, but I hope that helps.

By the way, that 455HO looks gorgeous!

[SD455DJ]

Eric, Thanks for the suggestion...I'm going to order them along with polyurethane motor mounts. I read from a thread search on motor mounts someone used a poly mount on the pivot side and a regular (new) rubber mount on the other to minimize vibration. I'll have each kind to experiment if we have to. It's hard to believe we can't get good motor mounts in this day and age for all the Pontiacs that exist.

Here are a couple more pics with the aluminum intake and crossover sitting on the engine...round port exhaust manifolds next.

Dennis

[Mister Pontiac]

Originally Posted by SD455DJ

Eric, Thanks for the suggestion...I'm going to order them along with polyurethane motor mounts. I read from a thread search on motor mounts someone used a poly mount on the pivot side and a regular (new) rubber mount on the other to minimize vibration. I'll have each kind to experiment if we have to. It's hard to believe we can't get good motor mounts in this day and age for all the Pontiacs that exist.

Here are a couple more pics with the aluminum intake and crossover sitting on the engine...round port exhaust manifolds next.

Dennis

Wow! I'm drooling...

I debated long and hard about going the "round port route" with my recent 455 build as well, but decided that acquiring all of the pieces to do it correctly (heads, intake, exhaust manifolds, etc) was a little more than I wanted to spend at the moment. So when I stumbled across a set of the odd casting 7L5 D-ports, I went that way for (basically) free.

Having said that though, I can see a day in the future when I may just do a top end swap and go "HO."

I've heard/read about the spacers under the frame mount plates and guys using all kinds of different mounts, or combination of mounts. I guess we've all bumped up against the same issue, so I'm sure you'll figure out what's best for your application too.

I've attached a shot of the 455 mount plates that I bought. I think they were Parts Place pieces (which required a little 'massaging' to fit the mounts), but overall I am very happy with the decision to go this direction. And I used a set of rubber mounts on mine, but I still feel like the engine is settled in so much better with this combo than the standard mounts.

Anyway, sure hope you keep the M-13, and keep the pictures coming!

[SD455DJ]

Thanks Eric for the compliments...Dan is doing most the work, so I hope he reads this. I decided to get new 455 frame brackets and motor mounts of the GT-37. Somewhere along the line it lost it's original 455 brackets & mounts to standard pieces. I did a thread search on A-body motor mounts, 455 & std., and even though there was some negative comments about the $99 Mity Mounts, I did buy them anyway after looking at the company's website. For a little more than the regular 455 motor mounts, I threw caution to the wind and ordered them...so no polyurethane now.

I think your decision to stay with the D-port heads is totally fine and does save a lot of cash. Since my car is an original HO car, that's they way it is returning, albeit with a different 455HO motor as the original block is already .060 over and the 197 heads had some cracks in the intake seats.

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

Dan ran the 455HO on the Desktop Dyno (DD) and it predicts it will make 395 hp at 531 lbft torque with the 8.5 to 1 compression, Summit 2802 cam and RA exhaust manifolds. The shortblock I'm using is from the Lemans and is .040" over and made an actual 390 hp at 512 lbft torque on the dyno with small valve #15 heads (10.0 to 1 compression) through stock log manifolds. The DD predicted 380 hp/537 lbft torque from this motor, so 10 hp low and 25 lbft high compared to the real dyno.

If I add 10 hp and deduct 25 lbft torque from the 455HO DD results, this would indicate a more realistic 405 hp/506 lbft torque from the motor. Essentially, these motors are making the same power, but interesting to see that it takes better flowing carb, heads and exhaust to make up the 1.5 point compression loss.

Dennis

[Mister Pontiac]

That's a neat comparison, Dennis. I'll be interested in what your actual results are, as well as the 'seat of the pants' feel between the two combinations.

Luv the fact that you're returning the car more to its original configuration, and I hope your might mounts work well. I'm curious to hear about that as well. Thanks for the updates!