[gloryrestoparts]

I usually run my 70 Tempest GT-37 at the Pure Stock Drags. The whole story is located here
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=645026

This past Jan I bought a 68 Firebird, factory 400 car. export car, factory heater delete. Originally autumn bronze with a parchment interior, but a prior owner repainted flambeau burgundy. 3.08 open rear. While the plan was to debut my 69 Olds W-31 at the Pure Stock Drags this year anyone who has restored a car knows it takes longer than planned. So, two months ago I knew the car wasn't going to make it. That meant pressing the Firebird into duty. I had already removed the Dougs headers earlier in the year and installed long branches. I still needed to replace the e'brock intake, carb and air cleaner. I got everything taken care of and my wife and I were able to switch off racing the car during qualifications on Fri. The quicker time would run it Sat during the shootouts. As I have more seat time in general racing, the winner was me. It's very first pass ever down the track ended up being the qualifying time, 14.80 @ 93 with a 2.17 60' From a 3.08 open car with a 70 big car short block with unknown internals but runs on 92 octane, I'll take it. I was able to also run 14.90, 15.01 and 14.87. All my runs were 92/93mph, so it was consistent. 60' were in mainly 2.23 or 2.28. There was no tuning or prep with the car prior to racing. I just made sure nothing leaked. I did put a timing light on it half way through Fri and bumped the timing up, but nothing else was done to the car. It ran what it ran. Sat I made a couple passes in the morning, same mph, but I lost 4 tenths with a couple 15.2 runs.

Time for the shootouts. The car I was paired against, Boss 302 mustang, broke earlier in the day. The next fastest pair, one car had carb trouble so it was out too. I got paired up against a supercharged Stude, my 14.80 vs his 14.74, so I had my work cut out for me. I also found out he put in a fresh motor four days ago. Well, needless to say, I brought the A game to the shootouts. Clean sweep in all three rounds. I tree'd him each time and was able to hold him off even though he had the quicker and faster et and mph. 14.48 @ 95.8 with a 2.14 60' followed by 14.64 @ 95 with a 2.20 60' and lastly a 14.71 @ 95 with a 2.26 60', some spinning on the last run and had to peddle a little bit. To be able to run a 14.48 @ almost 96 with a 2.14 60' from a 3.08 open rear car, I'm still amazed and in disbelief. Most importantly I was able to drive the car into the trailer when finished as I have enough broken cars at the moment. I'm very happy with the way the car ran.

To top it off, ended up talking with Bob Ashton friday evening after qualifications and he informed us the Pure Stock Drags display at MCACN is lacking a Pontiac. So ended up talking with the fellow racer who organizes the display and the firebird will be going to MCACN .... in my wife's name, as I'll be busy with my W-31 in the W-31 invitation display.

Attached is a pic of my wife showing the passenger rear tire no mercy. My friend in the 442 convert is in the other lane.

[johnta1]

Congrats!





What kind of suspension work can be done to it?
If it was a 67 you could put the bars to use for better traction.


Good luck at the MCACN also!

[rdl]

Great story, thanks for sharing. If you know the results for the other Gen 1’s in attendance it would be great if you could share.

[unruhjonny]

what does a "heater delete" car look like underhood?

where would a heater delete car be ordered for(?) - the middle east??

are there any hvac controls(?) - I am not very familiar with 1st gens, so I don't know if outside air is controlled via the "heater" controls...

[gloryrestoparts]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Congrats!





What kind of suspension work can be done to it?
If it was a 67 you could put the bars to use for better traction.


Good luck at the MCACN also!

Thanks.

Well, rebuild the suspension. clamping springs is allowed and will happen at some point, definitely before the new motor goes in the car.

[gloryrestoparts]

Originally Posted by rdl

Great story, thanks for sharing. If you know the results for the other Gen 1’s in attendance it would be great if you could share.

sorry, I do not. We missed you and your brother

[gloryrestoparts]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

what does a "heater delete" car look like underhood?

where would a heater delete car be ordered for(?) - the middle east??

are there any hvac controls(?) - I am not very familiar with 1st gens, so I don't know if outside air is controlled via the "heater" controls...

the firewall plates to run heater delete are reproduced, obviously mine are originals. There are two plates bolted to the firewall. A round one where the blower motor would be and a rectangular one where the heater core case cover would be. The firewall pad doesn't have the cutout for the heater core case on the interior.

Good question. obviously it went someplace warm, but I haven't been able to figure out where specifically. PHS doesn't know either. They just said all the addresses around that dealer code say GM Overseas Operations.

obviously a/c is an option. since this has option C48 -heater delete there are no HVAC controls in the dash. It received a block off plate, similar to radio delete plate. There are kick panel vents. As this is my first f-body and first gen, I'm quickly learning myself.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

On a Heater Delete Export , it definitely went out of the country.
You couldn't get heater delete or seatbelt delete on a 68 USA car.
Was against federal mandates at the manufacturing level.
But they could do those on one that was leaving the USA.

If you can post a copy of the PHS stuff - i might be able to decipher whether it was a civilian export purchase , or a military export purchase - if it matters.

We have a PY member with a 69 Judge that has heater delete.
Think it is in Norway.
It got a $17.50 credit for the deletion

[unruhjonny]

why in the world would a Norway order car have the heater deleted!?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I can't remember where it went to originally.
Been quite a while back

He posted a story on it - but it might not be in its own individual thread.
Advanced Search in Judge Section for heater delete would probably pull it up.
Not many , if any , others like it.

[Gary H]

I've seen a 67' GTO heater delete car that supposedly went to a service member in Hawaii. Would Hawaii count as over seas?

[gloryrestoparts]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

On a Heater Delete Export , it definitely went out of the country.
You couldn't get heater delete or seatbelt delete on a 68 USA car.
Was against federal mandates at the manufacturing level.
But they could do those on one that was leaving the USA.

If you can post a copy of the PHS stuff - i might be able to decipher whether it was a civilian export purchase , or a military export purchase - if it matters.

We have a PY member with a 69 Judge that has heater delete.
Think it is in Norway.
It got a $17.50 credit for the deletion

it's in this thread. Thanks for any insight you can provide
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=814196

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Gary H

I've seen a 67' GTO heater delete car that supposedly went to a service member in Hawaii. Would Hawaii count as over seas?

In 67 it may have still been permissible to get heater delete on Domestic cars.
Just know 68 and forward it wasn't - for a long time.

Some modern'ish camaro's and some such "non-highway" intended cars i think they made some with heater delete.

"Body-In-White" non-highway builds would be another example too.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Haven't went into the BHC yet - but right off the bat can see it went from California (state code 04) to ALASKA (state code 50).
Hawaii is state code 10

Alaska is the only state that is out of alpha~numeric sequence.
So it likely went on a boat in a port in Alaska.
Heading out somewhere other than Hawaii - i would guess.
Alaska obviously would not be a good place for heater delete.

On the low VIN vs. May Invoice Date
You'd need to research when Van Nuys came on board doing 68 Bird builds.
That might explain it.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Active Service Man discount is around 20% off retail.
Exports received "some" discount in retail price - but not a lot.

Not completely finished with the price breakdown , but far enough along to see its not going to be a heavily discounted car.
But is discounted just a little.

So looks to be a Civilian Ordered car from another country.

------------------------
------------------------


Waiting to find out if Autumn Bronze was an extra cost color on Bird.
And by how much.

Waiting to find out if they might know credit price for 68 Heater Delete
And 68 EXPORT cost.

I'm using 1969 figures on those two items right now.
68 might be a few dollars less - potentially.

It currently stands at
Label Price = $3719.83
Retail Price = $3814.23

thats a $94.40 discount at the moment - less than 3%

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Just going to go ahead and post my work so far on this one.
Mike Noun might peek in on it.

Still don't have concrete finding on Autumn Bronze cost.
So the gap in price could get larger.


68 Bird Export
223378L104683
Van Nuys Plant
Invoice Date 5/13/68
Invoice # K 700495
From: 04 California
To: 50 Alaska
Charge: 40-222
Ship: 40-044

Color: I-I = Autumn Bronze
Trim: 62 = White/Parchment - Standard

Destination $150.00

Label Price $3719.83 (includes $150.00 Destination)


Base Price.....................................2781.00

345 - 400 Option ............................358.09
351 - THM 400 Trans........................236.97
37F - Axle 3.08..................................n/c
382 - AM Radio................................61.09
414 - Dual Horns...............................4.21
463 -
--- 461 - Deluxe Wheel Discs............21.06
--- 462 - Deluxe Steering Wheel.......14.74
472 - Console..................................50.55
481 - Dual Exhaust............................n/c
501 - Power Steering.......................94.79
532 - SoftRay Windshield................21.06
702 - Conventional Spare Tire...........n/c
71-72 MD - Whitewall F70x14...........n/c
754 - Shoulder Belts.......................23.17
802 - Heater Delete.......................-17.50 CREDIT
EXPORT FEE...................................15.00

Total with Destination...............$ 3814.23

Versus Label Price with Dest .....$ 3719.83

= $94.40 extra in retail prices - not counting Autumn Bronze

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

So looks to be a Civilian Ordered car from another country.

That could still go either way really.
Export BHC's are sort of uncharted territory so far - but wanted to have a stab at it.

These BHC's are in some ways better than Invoices.
As far as actual info about the CAR itself Defacto - i like BHC's better.

Invoices are easier to work with because most of it is spelled out and all the prices listed in plain view.

On an Export Bill - i'd rather see an Invoice.
There are Retail price structures, Dealer Net price structures, Canadian price structures, Export price structures.
And others too like Fleet etc...

Export // Military Discount pricing is actually less than Dealer Net pricing.
It is the cheapest Overall Net Price of them all.
Reason for that - but lets keep moving.

With further review of some other files,
and some puffs from the peace pipe - here's the deal -

The Retail pricing here (Label Price) - seems to follow Canadian Retail pricing. But that (Label Price) means nothing to whomever is actually buying the car from PMD.

In this case - lets go ahead and call it a US Service Man.

The Bottom Line on a BHC Billing is - PMD only expects to receive payment on the INVOICE AMOUNT of a BHC Billing.
So .... this car would be $2521.07 to the purchaser and/or handler.
That is BELOW USA Dealer Net Cost on a presumed - lets call it $3800 car.

As documented proof - will post another BHC for another Firebird that was
a standard USA Retail transaction with a fairly similar Label Price $3777.
The Invoice Amount on that car is $3053.99

So here is a cut to the chase
(bear with me on calling the Bronze Car $3800)

This Autumn Bronze = $3800 Retail --- $2521 Net Invoice
This Yellow USA Car = $3777 Retail --- $3053 Net Invoice

See That
$3800 Retail car for $2521 to our Military Man.
$500 cheaper than a USA Pontiac Dealer could buy it for.
[ Plus whatever he paid to get it sent to wherever it landed. ]

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

To help put the scope in better perspective
Car Money today is about 10:1 (or more) from back then.
Imagine buying a new $38,000 car today - for $25,000 (and it's a brand new 68 400 Bird)
$5000 cheaper than even the GM Dealer could get it.
That's a nice damd discount.


More to come later.
I have another 68 Bird that was Military Man (EXPORT) ordered but delivered to a PMD Dealership in Missouri. We can review it too.

If it becomes necessary or desired - have an easier example to follow that is a later model Export // Military car with a regular style Invoice.

Can compare it against Invoice of a normal USA sold car of same year and type, to show the Export pricing versus USA Dealer Net pricing and USA Retail pricing.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Had some break-throughs and better data become available.
So this one is basically a done deal now.

1) An original 400 Firebird window sticker i was using for references was actually flawed - and gave the wrong pricing towards 400 option combined with THM 400.

2) Power Steering had a price increase just a few weeks before your car was built to 105.32

3) Autumn Bronze was not an extra-cost color on Firebird.

The revision shows the pricing to be exactly as USA Retail Pricing.
So the car was bought by a US Military Man.
Had hopes it would have EXPORT Retail Pricing , just to have it for specimen on file.

Doubt we'll ever know exactly where it went , but thinking maybe Phillipines or Japan.
Vietnam seems unlikely , but possible i suppose.
Wouldn't seem like anyone would take a new car into a war zone.

So here is the correct pricing / breakdown :


Base Price.....................................2781.00
345 - 400 Option ............................273.89
351 - THM 400 Trans.......................236.97
37F - Axle 3.08..................................n/c
382 - AM Radio.................................61.09
414 - Dual Horns................................4.21
463 -
--- 461 - Deluxe Wheel Discs.............21.06
--- 462 - Deluxe Steering Wheel........14.74
472 - Console...................................50.55
481 - Dual Exhaust............................n/c
501 - Power Steering.......................105.32
532 - SoftRay Windshield..................21.06
702 - Conventional Spare Tire............n/c
71-72 MD - Whitewall F70x14............n/c
754 - Shoulder Belts........................23.17
802 - HEATER DELETE...................- 23.23 CREDIT

subtotal......................................3569 .83

Destination...................................150. 00

TOTAL........................................3719. 83

Label Price.................................3719.83


Cost to Military Man....................2521.07
Cost to a Pontiac Dealer..............3053.93

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

On this Autumn Bronze example
the Military Discount was right at 33%

The level of Military Discount seems to get smaller as the years go by.

Have a 1974 SD T/A example that was about 20% Discount
$5000 car for $4000


In 2015 have a reference where the Military Discount on a 2015 Camaro-SS
was only $1700